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  1. #1
    laferney is offline Registered User
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    Questions -Evaluated in detail by an external evaluator acceptable to ODA

    The ODA states under a handfull of programs (Azaliah, Century University, Pacific Western , Robert University University , Rushmore .Washington International University etc.) that "Oregon employers should consider degrees from this supplier to be substandard unless each degree program is evaluated in detail by an external evaluator acceptable to ODA."
    My questions are:
    1. Who would be an acceptable evaluator ?
    2. Is the person's individual transcript and/or dissertation reviewed by the external examiner, or is the program in the school evaluated by an external examiner ( for example the Psychology Dept. at Century)?
    3. Why are schools listed above given this " option" to have their degree evaluated and others are not? For example Rushmore can , but Adam Smith U. can't?
    Thanks for all responses.

  2. #2
    Guest
    You might email ODA. I'm not sure if you'd ever want to be in the position of needing an evaluation for acceptance.

  3. #3
    Jack Tracey is offline Registered User
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    FWD - I agree with half of what you've said. I think that questions regarding ODA policy and practice are best put to the ODA. If laferney (or anyone else) has questions of this sort they should not be satisfied with third party answers. Go straight to the source. As for the idea of "needing an evaluation for acceptance," I would hasten to point out that this might be a very useful step for people who have earned degrees from non-US (GAAP) universities. It would be an added assurance of the quality of the degree for HR people who are less than familiar with such programs.
    Jack
    (also, laferney, I'm not certain where you got the idea that some schools can have their degrees evaluated by the ODA and others can not, but I do not believe this is the case. I believe that anyone can have their degree evaluated.)

  4. #4
    Guest
    Jack:
    I would hasten to point out that this might be a very useful step for people who have earned degrees from non-US (GAAP) universities.
    Sure not a bad idea for GAAP schools.

    But bad idea for this:

    laferney:
    (Azaliah, Century University, Pacific Western , Robert University University , Rushmore .Washington International University etc.

  5. #5
    laferney is offline Registered User
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    Since Mr. Contraras is a frequent visitor to this site and has answered several questions here I feel I am going to the source by posting here and the answer he (or any other knowlegeable person) gives will be of interest to not only me but to others here also.
    I'm not in the position of needing acceptance- I do wonder why some schools (the ones listed) have this added statement "Oregon employers should consider degrees from this supplier to be substandard unless each degree program is evaluated in detail by an external evaluator acceptable to ODA."

  6. #6
    Guest
    laferney,
    If it were me I would be more concerned with the following statement from ODA site:



    "Invalid degrees in Oregon
    Degrees from all of these suppliers are invalid for use in state or licensed employment in Oregon and the use of such degrees can result in criminal prosecution or civil penalties depending on the circumstances of the use. In addition, it is illegal to use such degrees or credentials for any purpose unless the user discloses in writing to all persons to whom the degrees is presented that the supplier is unaccredited and unapproved by ODA."



    I think at this point I would come to the conclusion that any degree listed here would simply not work. What if you go in for approval process and it does not pass? Are you locked up or simply asked to get out of Dodge?

    Dan

  7. #7
    laferney is offline Registered User
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    I'm not a fan of any of the schools listed. I'm interested in fairness. The quote you listed has no concern for me at all-I don't live in Oregon.

    Jack
    (also, laferney, I'm not certain where you got the idea that some schools can have their degrees evaluated by the ODA and others can not, but I do not believe this is the case. I believe that anyone can have their degree evaluated.)

    Because on the ODA site under the schools I have listed below they say ""Oregon employers should consider degrees from this supplier to be substandard unless each degree program is evaluated in detail by an external evaluator acceptable to ODA."

    For most other schools ODA says ''ODA has no evidence that this is an accredited or otherwise acceptable provider of postsecondary education meeting Oregon standards."

    There is a difference ever so sutle. What makes Rushmore substandard unless evaluated? What if it is evaluated and found ok- does this make the degree acceptable to ODA? (and in theory all degrees offered by that dept.)

    You're right though . Only ODA can answer these questions as it is their policy. I'll e-mail directly to ODA rather than accessing through degreeinfo.

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  9. #8
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    laferney:
    The quote you listed has no concern for me at all-I don't live in Oregon.
    With all due respect if you don't care about that then why do you care about anything ODA says or does? Get whatever degree you want and forget about ODA or any other state that deems them not useable.

  10. #9
    Lerner is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by FWD
    Jack:


    Sure not a bad idea for GAAP schools.

    But bad idea for this:

    laferney:
    I think it's a bad idea, actually such evaluation has a major flaw.

    What can stop the substandard school from coming with one or two show cases that have superior education and approach
    of a best practices in DL.

    If this evaluation was on ongoing basis. Then it would maintain the level, but if it’s a one time deal then the level can be dropped and they can go back to sub standard practices but this time have a positive evaluation.

    No substitute to accreditation and on going QA assessment.

    Learner

  11. #10
    laferney is offline Registered User
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    Thanks to Lerner for pointing out what I couldn't articulate. And my question was based on fairmess. Why do these schools have this "qualifier" "unless each degree program is evaluated...." when others don't. Why is this "qualifier" given to Rushmore or Century, but not Adam Smith U. or others of the same ilk? Does ODA feel these schools may have some value to prove?

  12. #11
    Bill Huffman is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by laferney
    The quote you listed has no concern for me at all-I don't live in Oregon.
    The Oregon statute may not be a concern to you. There is a trend where more and more states are passing laws that are restricting the use of unaccredited degrees. So if your state hasn't already passed such a law then perhaps it will in the future. Is that your real concern?

  13. #12
    Jack Tracey is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by laferney
    There is a difference ever so sutle. What makes Rushmore substandard unless evaluated? What if it is evaluated and found ok- does this make the degree acceptable to ODA? (and in theory all degrees offered by that dept.)
    I'm not especially involved or interested in this process of the ODA although I think it's generally a good thing to try to weed out the mills. My assumption about schools on the list (like Rushmore) is that people with degrees from those schools have gone through the evaluation process previously and so the ODA already has a clear, precise idea of the quality of these programs. If, for example, 10 people with degrees from XYZ University all had their degrees evaluated and all ten were found to be substandard, I too would be tempted to conclude that this was a substandard school. I would also leave the door open for others to go through the evaluation process in the future.
    Jack

  14. #13
    laferney is offline Registered User
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    To Bill
    The statute itself doesn't pertain to me (directly) as I don't live in Oregon. I like many other posters here of course take an interest in the ODA -in a way the ODA has become the " internet pocket Bear's Guide" by listing "unaccredited schools . degree mills etc" Although mainly for Oregon residents it has implications for all states. Anyone having an interest in DL in general can't ignore it.
    I like the ODA and feel it is a real service- I do question certain aspects of it -why certain schools are excluded from it for example, and my current question posed. I'd have no issues if it came to my state (MA.) -other than as a consumer or citizen who has the right to provide input/questioning of any state agency. Mr. Contreras graciously answers questions from people nationally even though the ODA pertains only to his own state because he is aware of the national implications his agency holds.

  15. #14
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    laferney

    "Does ODA feel these schools may have some value to prove?"


    Or call their bluff. Perhaps ODA simply invites schools with some course work required to try for evaluation and those with none are disqualified.

    Aren't there any RA schools with program you are looking for? Walden I think has this.

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  17. #15
    Lerner is offline Registered User
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by laferney
    To Bill
    The statute itself doesn't pertain to me (directly) as I don't live in Oregon. I like many other posters here of course take an interest in the ODA -in a way the ODA has become the " internet pocket Bear's Guide" by listing "unaccredited schools . degree mills etc" Although mainly for Oregon residents it has implications for all states. Anyone having an interest in DL in general can't ignore it.
    I like the ODA and feel it is a real service- I do question certain aspects of it -why certain schools are excluded from it for example, and my current question posed. I'd have no issues if it came to my state (MA.) -other than as a consumer or citizen who has the right to provide input/questioning of any state agency. Mr. Contreras graciously answers questions from people nationally even though the ODA pertains only to his own state because he is aware of the national implications his agency holds.
    [/QUOTE

    I think that ODA has many reasons.
    Example:

    1. Some level of work done to earn a degree - OK lets evaluate.

    2. NO new work done the degree was awarded based on VAE excuse by unaccredited entity - No evaluation needed - its not a provider of education .

    3. The scholl is not in USA - so AACRO evaluated and provided conclusions.

    4. The school is licensed or approved is state with strong laws that regulate schools.

    5. The school is in state were no laws or no oversite of licensing

    6. The school is only on the internet - a web site and not licensed in any state or country

    7. The school is accredited and recognized in its home location but the ministry of education is on unknown level or the processes are not ethical , lax, corrupt , some island were maybe its a one man operation etc.

    this examples may lead to deferent requirements and assesments.

    Learner

  18. #16
    laferney is offline Registered User
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    FWD
    Aren't there any RA schools with program you are looking for? Walden I think has this.

    What makes you think I'm looking for a degree - I've got 5 RA degrees and a RA CAGS already. Just because I expressed interest in MUA on another link?
    I'm not looking for a loophole-I'm trying to understand how ODA works as a consumer interested in DL. I'm not promoting degree mills or looking to discredit anyone. Just taking advantage of the wisdom shared on degreeinfo. Sometimes it is difficult to get a direct answer to a question due to emotional reasoning on some charged issues. My only reason for this post was that I noted some unaccredited schools (6) had a different wording by ODA that suggested a way to evaluate their degrees that others didn't have and wondered why. Lerner suggested some as you did . I'm sure your statement above was meant to be helpful . I hope I have explained my intention.

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