Education And Skills Committee

UNCORRECTED TRANSCRIPT OF ORAL EVIDENCE To be published as HC 647-i

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmeduski/uc647-i/uc64702.htm

House of COMMONS

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE

TAKEN BEFORE

EDUCATION AND SKILLS COMMITTEE


International Education


Monday 7 June 2004

 

Would it be too much to ask you to include in your usually misleading thread-starting posts some kind of summary of whatever point it is that the document to which you link us provides some kind of support? I know it's a tall order since most of what you write here has no point, but could you at least give it a try before asking everyone here to wade through moutains of more-than-a-year-old testimony trying to figure out whatever miniscule and, no doubt, misinterpreted and pointless part of it you had hoped we'd notice?

(Sheesh! The guy's like a pimple that just won't burst.)

 

This is an example how you perceive my posts.
Thanks God you are in minority.

Others enjoyed reading the transcript and got the picture wile year old of what this session was about.

Some appreciate this info

Who cares any way if you like my post or not.

Others thanks for the emails ;-)

Learner

 

As blunt (and unusually short winded) as DesElms might be, he does have a point.
It is helpful for those of us without large amounts of free time to have a quick summary or points to look out for before trawling through an 18000 word document.

You are not certainly the only poster to have attracted his ire, only the most recent.

 

The good parts, I guess:

(Dr Neil Kemp is identified as the Director, Education UK Marketing Division, of the British Council.)

"Q8 Chairman: What damage does it do when we see the growth of bogus universities, universities purporting to be institutions of high repute which are actually a small back office in a seedy street in some part of London, Dorset or wherever? There have been several press articles about students who have pitched up in this country to institutions where they thought that they qualification they had then would give them entry to other things. Is there not a concern here that these shady operators could actually undermine the image we have of quality institutions and quality courses?

Dr Kemp: You are totally right. It is very, very damaging and anything that can be done to ensure that institutions that are trading like that are not allowed to trade, particularly internationally where lack of information certainly might not help, is to our advantage. You have to remember that these institutions are coming here to set up is because we have the quality ring about us. So, they come here and, by association, are using that as an inherent aspect of their marketing, and a student in Wu Jiang(?) or in East Java does not necessarily know that the UNIVERSITY OF KNIGHTSBRIDGE [caps added], to name one that did exist and I do not know if it still does, has a ring of truth about it - it is British, therefore it must be; it is registered in whichever group of islands, I do not know.

Q9 Chairman: What would you do? Would you regulate? Who should regulate these institutions?

Dr Kemp: It is what I think we are going through at the moment. Nick has been involved in this.

Mr Butler: We are working together with the Home Office, IND and the DfES on a number of regulations with a view to setting up a register of education providers in the UK with a view to getting them to full accreditation within the next few years. So, it is something which I think the DfES are leading on in terms of the registration and we are hoping to see some more concrete proposals in the next few weeks."

 

Please don't make it sound like I need a new person to hate here each week. Lerner is a mill shill, plain and simple. He is reviled by many here, believe me; and I promised him that I'd not let him jerk everyone around like he does with impunity. I'm just one of the ones willing to be most blunt, tenacious and unforgiving about it.

 

Wrong as usual.



Whata joke

 

Ah, yes... the clarion call of perps as, handcuffed, the police officer puts a hand on the top of their heads to make sure they don't bump them on the door frame as they're put into the back seat of the patrol car: "I didn't do it," or "you're wrong about me."

...as observable on most any episode of COPS... unless you're Bruce, in which case it's observable nightly and in real life.

 

To complete the analogy, perhaps I should start up a thread to discuss what area of the body the irritating pimple would be on?

 

I'd sit on that idea, if I were you. Er... oh... wait... then it would burst.

 

While I hesitate to openly agree with Gregg it doesn't seem to be too much to ask that a poster give some clear reason as to why anyone would want to read through such a document. Is there a "well known" person mentioned? Is a specific university mentioned? Is there a new law being proposed? Are they giving away free ice cream somewhere? I say this not so much as a criticism as a suggestion. I mean, you actually want people to read this, don't you? Give them a reason and maybe they will.
Jack
(Learner - to me this is a clear indication of your cultural origins. [I've moved from 3$Bills linguistic analysis to my own sociological analysis] You see, we in the USA are bludgeoned by marketing from the time of our birth. If you don't tell us why we should be interested then we won't be interested. You might consider it to be a sort of cultural birth defect.)

 

Oh, terrific. What a legacy: Gregg DesElms, the guy people love to hate... and only privately agree with.

(just kiddin' around)

Oh, good. Enduring his silliness wasn't enough; now we have to understand him, too.

So... like... does this mean no more "group on Lerner?" 'Cause, I'd really miss that.

(just kiddin' around... again... with both remarks... er... well... you know... sort of)

 

I'd also like to know, if Lerner is from Ukraine, why he never did answer Mr Azad's question about Ukrainian DL? For that matter, why does Lerner only and always talk about dubious RUSSIAN stuff and never anything at all from Ukraine? Is he afraid that the perspicacious and incisive Stanislav will simply nail him? Or is he pouting (Putin-g?) because Ukraine now has a president who noticed that Ukraine is an independent European country and not a satrapy of Moscow?

I have it on the very best authority that Mr Azad (this one) is in fact not Lerner. Mr Azad's English is better, for one thing; his motives I leave to others. But I do not hesitate at all to agree utterly and openly with my greatly esteemed colleague Gregg DesElms that there is no earthly purpose served by not-Mr-Azad's trilling posts (troll + shill) that waffle between incoherence and apologetics for a disgusting enterprise. We all went through this some time ago with somebody who trilled about PWU. It was a lame stunt then; it's a lame stunt now.

Basta.

Janko Preotul

 

The reason is that when I left Soviet Union, There was very small deference between Ukraine and Russia, it was the same country like Arizona and New Mexico.

Wile born and raised in Ukraine only in second grade I started studying Ukrainian language wile the official language was Russian, that was the language we spoke at home so I really considered my self more Russian than Ukrainian. Imagine if state of California suddenly became Mexico, would US born citizens now residing in Mexico feel Mexican or US American?

I'm not aware of any diploma mills in Ukraine.

It's been 25 years since I left yet based on the area were I leave it's as if I never left.

It takes an immigrant from former Soviet Union to understand why something like this will interest a person.

People were i reside talk about this issues.

I don't think you or Gregg can understand.

Stanislaw has a better understanding of what I'm trying to say.

Maybe he is not surrounded by Immigrants from Russia and resides in more "Americanized" area and society.

Learner

 

The beauty in the painting some times we see and admire deferent things.

I did this so it would be more interesting and not to focus on one thing or another.

There are many issues in this transcript - session that are relevant to what is going on in education, it talks about QA, about importing students, and offers a view on UK parliamentary session on education.

In the emails I received people found interesting information.

So this post was a conversational peace and like a mirror reflected deferent biases of persons.

Gregg immediately went on attack and was trying to find something incrimination, a motive.

there is so mach more but it's late.

Asta manyana

Learner

 

And so, just as you planned, a conversation occurred. However, the conversation was about YOU and not about "the piece." Does this suggest to you that a different approach might be worth trying?
Jack

 

You keep doing this. You've done it in other threads. You reference PMs and/or emails that readers allegedly send you which, presumably, congratulate you for your postings; and excoriate me for mine. Obviously, this tactic is intended to imbue you and your words with the color of supportable rightness, and me and mine (and/or others who criticize you, and theirs) with the color of unsupportable wrongness -- a wrongness that few (if any) of your alleged "supporters" seem to have the courage to express here, right out in the open, where it belongs.

I, for one, don't believe a word of it. It's just more of your lies. You keep lying. Others see right through it (and you)... and then you wonder why you're so victimized around here.

Start behaving honorably, and watch how quickly things change for you around here.

So, then, directness isn't part of your culture, either? Is that what you're saying? You posted a link to a dry, seemingly endless transcript of sworn testimony (something some of us get enough of in real life, as it is) without so much as a hint as to why. I simply asked you not waste everyone's time; and to please tell us what it is in the testimony that we're supposed to notice. If the way I suggested it had an air of impatience about it, it's because I don't like you and have grown impatient with you. You're a liar and a disingenuous schemer who behaves dishonorably; and who has ulterior motives that you'll neither abandon nor disclose, but which look awfully millish to us.

Stop behaving dishonorably (and millishly... and disingenuously), and watch how quickly things change for you around here.

 

What part don't I understand?

Duplicity?
Doubletalk?
Arrogance?
Self-pity?
Condescension?
Chauvinism?

No, Lerner, we Romanians understand your virtues all too well.

 

your opinion.
Not applies to me in this case.

You are working hard to make me in to what I'm not.
I feel sorry for you because you faild to make me in to shill so you can feel a hero.

I think you know that and just to proud.
It's not to late to admit a mistake and take back your false acusations.

Now this may show a sign of a real man - human.

And by the way my little town when I was born used to be Romania that is before WW2.

My father is Romanian and this is what was spoken when he didn't want me to understand.

Yow meduk akasa

larevedery

 

Which, trust me, comes across to the reader a helluva lot more credibly than does yours.

So, then, you concede that there are (or have been) cases in which it would? (I just love it when they fall on their own swords.)

No one's making you into anything that you're not... and they're most certainly not breaking a sweat over it.

No, actually... you do that to yourself.

Think again.

I've yet to see Janko make a false accusation... against you or anyone else. You sure make that claim around here alot, though. You might want to ask yourself why.

You could only hope to have Janko's kind of humanity... or manliness, for that matter, I suppose.

No wonder Janko sees you comin' 10 miles out!