Quality Assurance in France

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Lerner, Mar 15, 2005.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    How is this applied to privet ecoles in France?


    5. Quality Assurance

    • The Comité National d’Evaluation (CNE) was established under the 1984 Higher Education Law. A law of 1989 made the CNE an autonomous administrative entity, which reports directly to the President of the Republic and thus is not under the authority of the higher education minister.

    • Launched in the early 1990s, institutional accreditation is awarded on a four-year basis and is based on the results of an internal and external assessment.

    • CNE has completed an initial evaluation of all universities and has embarked on a second round of evaluations.

    • Engineering schools and the programs they offer are assessed every six years by the Commission des Titres d'Ingénieur (Commission for Graduate Engineers). The Commission d'Evaluation des Formations et des Diplômes de Gestion (Commission for the Evaluation of Management Courses and Degrees) was established in 2001 and awards six-year accreditations to competent schools and programs.

    • CNE is a member of the European Network for Quality Assurance.

    Referances:

    • Higher Education in France, F. Kaiser - University of Twente’s Centre for Higher Education Policy Studies (CHEPS), Netherlands 2001

    • France, Implementation of the ‘Sorbonne/Bologna’ Process Objectives (1998-2003), Ministry of Youth, Education and Research, August 19, 2003of Management

    • Implementation of the Bologna Declaration: France, World Education News & Reviews, Jan/Feb 2001

    • Erasmus Mobility by Country 2001/2002 — ECTS Workshop, Feb. 20-21, 2003, UK Socrates Erasmus Council
     
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    CNE - Comité National d'Évaluation
    Street 43 Rue de la Procession
    Postal Code 75015
    City Paris
    Country France
    Phone + 33 1 55 55 60 97
    Fax + 33 1 55 55 63 94
    Email [email protected]
    Homepage http://www.cne-evaluation.fr
    Founding Date 1985
    Ownership Government organisation-independent body
    Scope of Authority All institutions of higher education in France
    Agency's Role Evaluation of quality of main
    Keywords Evaluation, quality, performance, government (accountability)
    Methods Used Analysis of quantitative data and use of indicators. Peer review system (experts) for qualitative evaluation.
    Contact Person Bruno Curvale
    Title Project Manager


    © ENQA 2000-2005
    Credits



    Scope of Authority All institutions of higher education in France

    ALL? including privet ecole?

    I'm waiting for reply from mr Bruno Curvale.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2005
  3. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I asked Alain Michal if Sorbon was subject to this body in my first post to this thread:

    http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13336

    Alain's rather excited reply was:

    I still don't know the current status of the French CNE. But it's certainly safe to assume that Sorbon isn't recognized by it.

    It's also noteworthy that despite the inevitable incantation of "L-numbers", Alain never answered my question.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2005
  4. Peaceforall

    Peaceforall member

    Reality about the CNE

    Hello !

    Following the thread, I went to the CNE and read the French parges which are much more explicite than the English ones.

    CNE (meaning Comité Nationale d'Evaluation des Etablissement Publics à caractère Scientifique, Culturel et Professionnel) is , as its name states, only for the assesment of Public French Universities.

    CNE can not look at private universities as they (under the control of my favorite multilingual Uncle) states:
    " Il a pour mission d'évaluer l'ensemble des établissements publics à caractère scientifique, culturel et professionnel" Which means its evaluate different programs from Public Institutions.

    Therefore they cannot evaluate any private institutions like HEC, de Sorbon or the Ecole des Cadres, etc.

    It is then not right to say "But it's certainly safe to assume that Sorbon isn't recognized by it" for the two following reasons.

    1) CNE deal only by their statute with French public universities, not private ones.
    .
    2) While looking at their reports they looked at only 80 universities. They do not recognize or accredit any universities and does not have this role as all Public universities are "de facto" and "de jure" part of the French Education nationale.

    The French word evaluation could be misleading (faux amis). It means comparaison of different programs not accreditation.

    I want to inform you that the private sector of the French Higher Education is rules by articles (L-something) of the French Code of Education. For exemple an institution that satisfies all the requirements and consitions of a "Etablissement d 'Enseignement Supérieur Privé" has the right as per one article L to grant degrees and diploma in France.

    The system is quite different from the US and I think that a lot of honest people could be fooled by it (Myself being Swiss I have this problem also) and they often arrive to the wrong conclusions.

    I hope that my English was not too bad and can help you to understand the two systems (public and private) of higher education in France.
     
  5. bullet

    bullet New Member

    pardon?

    Bonsoir,


    Aside from "speaking" french..........how does a swiss become an erudite in french education law (Ça ne fait rien)?

    :confused:
     
  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: Reality about the CNE

    The way that you kind of snuck Sorbon's name in there alongside two schools that I've never heard of illustrates the problem we have here. How can legitimate French private institutions be distinguished from the phony ones?

    If you are arguing that the CNE doesn't approve private schools, and if Sorbon is private, then presumably Sorbon must not be approved by the CNE. Is that right or wrong?

    It still looks to me like France is one of those countries where 'private' is essentially synonymous with 'not accredited'. If that's the case, it implies that Americans would be making a foolish mistake if they automatically assumed that private French ecoles must be RA-equvalent, merely because they are legally established ecoles in France.

    And I want to inform you that a law code is simply a book. It's not an accreditor.

    If there is some enforcement body that actually inspects French private institutions and verifies their academic legitimacy in the same way that the American regional accreditors inspect and verify American private universities like Stanford and MIT, then what is it? How can Anglophones learn what its findings are?

    If French private institutions don't receive any credible and reliable oversight, then we need to know that too.

    I also want to inform you that the question whether or not an institution has the right to grant degrees and diplomas in France is essentially irrelevant, if those degrees and diplomas aren't worth the paper that they are printed on. Please don't confuse legal considerations with academic considerations. State licensed schools in Wyoming are completely legal, but that doesn't necessarily make them academically legitimate.
     
  7. Peaceforall

    Peaceforall member

    Re: pardon?

    I am just interested in this discussion and Genève was French during Napoléon I and has somme common ground in education. Also I went as an exchange student at La Sorbonne about the comparaison of educational system it is why I am participating in this forum it makes me feel younger.

    However l'Uni de Genève is definitively the best !!!

    Please do not assume that I do not know everything. I am human and make mistakes.

    But you know the Swiss love to specialise in the details (we are watch Makers and not only Cucu Clock) and when something does not appear as "Korrect" we correct with pleasure.

    I think that what I wrote about the CNE is totally correct. I just went to their site after reading the thread.

    it is one of our defect to think that we are always right (even in running into big bankrupcy the awfull Swissair...).

    from a Man walking with a white cross over red on his lapel...

    Respectfully
     
  8. Peaceforall

    Peaceforall member

    URe: Re: Reality about the CNE


    Dear Sir, thank you for your response,

    I understand you well and share many of your thoughts and reservations.However I think that we must not have, when examining a case, a "pre-conveided-a priori judgement". Like "de Sorbon is phony, then all French Private Universities are phony". I think that both are not true.

    Slowly, like a Swiss I respond to your interesting interrogations.


    QUESTION
    How can legitimate French private institutions be distinguished from the phony ones?

    Difficult to answer. I start from the point that Public and Private registered universities should not be phony ones as they have both two type of Governmental control. However it is true that Public universities appears to have greater government control, which is also very bureaucratic and unionized. State is not a panacea in Education is not it?

    QUESTION
    If you are arguing that the CNE doesn't approve private schools, and if Sorbon is private, then presumably Sorbon must not be approved by the CNE. Is that right or wrong?

    Both ways!
    Right as CNE can not examine any Private Universities (It is even mentioned in its full name) .

    Wrong because CNE does not "approve" any university even public.
    It reports to the President of the Republic and not the Ministry of Education. It examine and give comments about each program including public institutions that are not in the French educational system. CNE has zero jurisdictional power on approving or not a University. It is like a very useful advisory committe on the quality of teaching.

    QUESTION
    It still looks to me like France is one of those countries where 'private' is essentially synonymous with 'not accredited'.

    Absolutely wrong !
    Sorry to be so frank many Private Universities are considered the best in their fields like HEC, INSEAD, Institut Catholique, etc. It is I think the same in the USA . I will add that the trend is that private schools improve constantly their standards and are becomming morepopular than the public ones,which have a tendency to lower it.

    SENTENCE
    And I want to inform you that a law code is simply a book. It's not an accreditor.

    I think I did not explain myself well. The French code of education edicts the numerous rules for the control of private Universities by the French Government. They must be registered, they have an oversight from the government, all courses must be okeyed before starting, Degrees of Professor should be transmitted, and at every moment the school is open to the Ministry,etc. If they do not comply the school loose it registration and cannot teach.

    QUESTION
    If there is some enforcement body that actually inspects French private institutions and verifies their academic legitimacy in the same way that the American regional accreditors inspect and verify American private universities like Stanford and MIT, then what is it?

    Yes the French Government but probably not like US American Accreditors and not as complete (I do not know how they work by the way). See above as I have tried to resume the government control.


    STATEMENT
    I also want to inform you that the question whether or not an institution has the right to grant degrees and diplomas in France is essentially irrelevant.

    Respectfully I do not think so, when you see Mr. Contreral saying in this forum that de Sorbon is not allowed to grant degrees in France. He wrote (representing his state) in his opening thread:
    "Only recognized institutions can award degrees and we find nothing to indicate that Sorbon has been recognized in France"

    This is unfortunately totally inadequate.

    I however agree with the qualitative view of your posting. quality of teaching for me depends of the quality of the professors and it varies. Will you agree?

    Respectfully
     
  9. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Re: URe: Re: Reality about the CNE

    Vote for me and there will be a chicken in every pot, love in every heart and a college degree on every wall! :)
     
  10. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: URe: Re: Reality about the CNE

    I've never suggested that all private French higher education institutions (by definition they aren't universities) are phony. I have suggested that it's foolish to assume that an unknown institution is legitimate, just because it's a French private higher education institution.

    Concerning Sorbon, based on the information that's contained in numerous earlier threads, I think that it's most likely a scam. I consider it a probable degree mill.

    I might be wrong in that judgement, but I do need to be convinced. Discussion board posts are unlikely to be effective at this late date. I really want to see full and credible information, presented in comprehensible form, in English, from trustworthy and respected French government and academic sources that are themselves above reproach.

    You seem to have dodged that question. Unfortunately, it's critical and can't be avoided.

    Don't play with words.

    Whatever words you choose to describe what the CNE does, they didn't do it in the case of Sorbon.

    Nobody has ever suggested that private universities can't be good. I live just a few miles from Stanford University. Stanford University is a private university and it's pretty good.

    My point concerns accreditation, academic quality assurance. Stanford University is private, but it is also subject to all of the outside inspections and verifications that any other American RA-university is subject to, whether the school is public or private.

    That doesn't seem to be the case in France (or in much of Europe). The quality assurance mechanism largely restricts itself to the public universities. You yourself have argued that precise point regarding this CNE agency. Private higher education is apparently under some weaker regime, but the details of that are never made clear and are subject to constant obfuscation.

    That's pretty vague.

    Precisely which agency or body within the ministry is tasked with overseeing the academic quality of private institutions? The CNE (so you say) restricts its attention to public schools, so what body performs the same function for private schools?

    Precisly who in the government is exercising this control? Does whatever they do correspond to American regional accreditation or to what the British QAA does? Or is this process more similar to Wyoming state licensing?

    I'm not Mr. Contreras and his concerns are not mine.

    I'm concerned that possession of legal permission to operate doesn't necessarily guarantee that the school in question isn't substandard or perhaps even a degree-mill.

    In the case of Sorbon, we constantly see people trying to confuse legality and accreditation, then triumphantly announcing that Sorbon is legal (which still hasn't been completely established, by the way), so therefore it must be educationally sound and its degrees must be academically legitimate. But that's a non-sequitur, it simply doesn't follow.
     
  11. Peaceforall

    Peaceforall member

    Re: Re: URe: Re: Reality about the CNE


    Dear Sir,

    I respect you your personality and your thougths. I think frankly that you become too personal in using against me the word "Dodge" " Playing with words" 'Pretty Vague"

    I will not follow the same route and will try to explain in a language which is not my native one, what I think know. Do not be insulted or angry by my wordings . It is curious that we we talk about the VAE, people seems to be angry and at least not "very kind" .

    1) I am I confess, favorable to the VAE. I think that the French (and not the Swiss) had made a gigantic leap to integrate work experience into valuable education. Contrary to what I saw here the VAE procedure is legal,accepted defined by a Law and must (not may) be applied by all universities. It has a well defined procedure. French is not a common Law country then you may surprised by the constant use of article L Something. I confirm that a degree acquired through the VAE has exactly the same valor than a "regular" one (no mention of VAE on the diploma(). It is unlawfull in france to discriminate between the two procedures. I was surprised US administrator saying "We will put the student on probation". In Europe and for the other countries (including Switzerland) who signed and ratified the Lisbon convention it could not be possible.

    2) I probably again not expressed myself well here are the areas of the governmentt control on Private universities:
    a) Registration Procedure (declaration at the prefecture, Tribunal, and Education Nationale)
    b) security and Control of the premises
    c) Ethics of the Professors and Administration
    d) Control of the credential of the Professors. (Degrees etc.)
    e) Autorization, each year, of every course with submission of the syllabus, content of the course and Diploma of the professor
    f) Technical regulations about the number of Labs, library etc
    g) Possibility avery time to do a checking of the above.
    c) There are sanctions if the above is not respected.

    It is up to you to see if it meet your standards for recognition in the USA

    3) I do not want to offend you in anyway but the argument about the CNE was ill advised. I say " wrong and right "as CNE is not in charge of Private universities (right) and does not accredit anybody but has an advisory role (Wrong). By the way CNE is less well-known in France than in this forum LOL

    4) I think as I say that De Sorbon is legal (and not to be proved) in France and has the right to grant degrees. I was responding to a the first posting of this own thread of Mr. Contreras, which is an official of a State. It was an important statement. It thought it was also important to tell you and the people that it was not correct.

    We will never convince each other but we still be friend is not it ?

    We will try both to keep an open mind.
     
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: URe: Re: Reality about the CNE

    I have seen no one on DegreeInfo say anything against the VAE process. The VAE appears to be similar to the way that many universities have been doing buisness for years, here in the USA. There is one (maybe more) degree mill shill that keeps popping up here and keeps trying to redirect the issue of Sorbon being a diploma mill instead to the VAE process. This attempt is very transparent and has never worked before, I'm surprised that you keep trying this same old tired nonsense.

    Sorbon is a degree mill. All evidence we've seen seems to support that conclusion. There's a small chance that this conclusion is mistaken. There's also a small chance that the sun will never rise again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2005
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    ECTS (European Credit Transfer System)

    My initial question was about privet Ecoles in france and thier accreditation.


    ECTS (European Credit Transfer System)

    The use of the ECTS (European Credit Transfer System) is required by the ministerial decree of April 2002 and it applies to all institutions of higher education with official authorization to deliver national diplomas.

    • It is expected that all institutions will have adopted and implemented ECTS as a transfer and accumulation system by 2005.

    What is the satus of Privet Ecoles that don't deliver NATIONAL diplomas?
     
  14. Peaceforall

    Peaceforall member

    Re: Reality about the CNE

    Dear Sir,

    I understand your position and sometimes your exasperation. You know I am only a dumb Swiss, who makes his mind on evidences and if there is not I give the benefice of the doubt.

    I do not know what "Shill" is in en English, could you explain to m?

    You decided, until that "the sun will not rise again" that

    I The VAE is already adopted by US universities for a long time. You are probably right but I can tell you that the French VAE initiative was unique and a revolution in Europe, specially that it was casted in a Law. I had the impression that many people dislike here this process, but I could be wrong, you know better than me.

    II That Robert de Sorbon is a "Degree Mill"
    what are your arguments to support it?:

    1) They are Degree Mill because Robert De Sorbon is not approved by the CNE, which is totally impossible as CNE do not take care of Private universities and has no accrediting role, only advisory.

    2) They are a degree mill because the control of the French Government is not sufficient on Private Universities. First if it is true, it does it automatically imply the concept of Degree Mill, and secondly, I went in details about the control of the French Governmenton Private universities, You did not told me if this control is sufficient or not. Let me rephrase it again:

    Here are the areas of the governmentt control on Private universities:

    a) Registration Procedure (declaration at the prefecture, Tribunal, and Education Nationale)
    b) security and Control of the premises
    c) Ethics of the Professors and Administration
    d) Control of the credential of the Professors. (Degrees etc.)
    e) Autorization, each year, of every course with submission of the syllabus, content of the course and Diploma of the professor
    f) Technical regulations about the number of Labs, library etc
    g) Possibility avery time to do a checking of the above.
    c) There are sanctions if the above is not respected.

    From the Code of education
    Is it for you suffient and comparable to the US standards ?

    3) Mr. Contreras said that AACRAO said that Robert de Sorbon could not be accepted because they are not allowed to grant legally degrees in France. It appears to me totally incorrect. And nobody told me that I was wrong on that.

    De Sorbon uses also some procedures that are not commun with the usual "Degree Mills". Correct me if I am wrong: Two tier system (refundable application, then Jury fees), relatively reasonable price, Delay of two months before the Jury decision-in line with the using French timing, naming the professors, being in a supposed developped country, They mention a rate of 75% acceptance (not verifiable I confess), etc.

    I do not have the same approach as you, but perhaps tomorrow they will be no sun in Geneva (because of the usual clouds...)

    I think that Robert de Sorbon is going far but not too far ! They seem to have a pioneer attitude that shocks the conservative part of Academia. I understand however their feelings.

    Going to bed it is close to midnight.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2005
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Reality about the CNE

    The Canadian government and the ODA have both said that Sorbon is not a real school. IIRC, someone from the French government wrote to someone on this forum and said that Sorbon was not a French school that could grant degrees. That seems like much better source of information than an anonymous someone using an alias that CLAIMS they are swiss.

    I hope that the sun will rise for you again tomorrow, especially because about the only thing I do really know about you is that you and I share the same sun. :)
     
  16. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think that Robert de Sorbon has state approval like in CA USA.

    In CA USA State approval allows university to award degrees.

    ODA has its own definition of Degree Mill.

    Now in CA many of the degrees are legal to use and maybe accepted for employment and some even for licensing.

    CA is one State out 50, in France such an L- License or Approval
    can be accepted just like state approved well France is One state.

    But they fall short of state accredited that award National diplomas that are equivalent to RA or NA degrees.

    Some Ecoles are well known and approved by local Academy.

    I think this is possible that Sorbon is approved Ecole and has the legal authority to award degrees but the question is if they are on the same level as RA or NA in USA because that’s one of the factors what ODA is using to determine if they are a Mill.

    Just an opinion.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2005
  17. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Reality about the CNE

    Shill: A decoy who acts as an enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of others.

    Maybe I've missed some telling comments of yours but you haven't seemed to me a shill.
     
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    And what is Trol ?
     
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The law of 12 July 1875 established the principle of the freedom of higher education making it possible to create private higher education institutions through a legal declaration of establishment. These very diverse institutions have highly selective entrance procedures in common. A Baccalauréat is required but is not enough to secure a place.

    There are:

    - engineering colleges (écoles d'ingénieurs);
    - the grandes écoles of commerce and management;
    - Ecole des hautes études commerciales (HEC);
    - Ecole supérieure des sciences économiques et commerciales (ESSEC);
    - Ecole supérieure de commerce de Paris (Sup de Co);
    - Ecole supérieure de commerce de Lyon;
    - Ecoles supérieures de commerce et d'administration des entreprises (ESCAE), of which there are 18;
    - Ecoles or Instituts supérieurs de sciences commerciales, of which there are 17;
    - "Catholic colleges", private institutions recognized by the Ministry of Higher Education and Research, which provide both university and college courses. Students attending these institutions take examinations before university examination boards. The five Catholic colleges are located in Paris, Lille, Lyons, Angers, and Toulouse.

    All private institutions can request state recognition.

    The Minister for Higher Education grants recognition by decree. Recognized institutions are entitled to receive state subsidies and their students can receive public education grants. Recognized institutions are subject to inspection, and the appointment of their directors and teaching staff is subject to approval by the recteur of the académie.

    The Minister for Higher Education can, by decree, grant institutions that have been recognized by the State for at least five years the right to award official certificates ("revêtus du visa officiel' in current jargon). The criteria for awarding this right are the same as for recognition, but include additional requirements concerning the level and quality of education.

    In the public sector only, there are:

    - Nine political science colleges (instituts d'études politiques - IEP). The one in Paris ("Sciences-po") accepts candidates holding a Baccalauréat to the first year after a very rigorous selection examination. Holders of a certificate equivalent to at least a licence can be admitted to the second year after an interview.

    IEP award a certificate after three years of study. They also offer their graduates advanced courses lasting one to two years within the framework of third cycle studies.

    - Colleges of natural science (grandes écoles scientifiques) under the Ministry of Higher Education (such as the Ecole Centrale des Arts et Manufactures, Ecole Centrale de Lyon, Ecole nationale supérieure des Arts et Industries textiles, and Ecole nationale supérieure d'Arts et Métiers). Students are admitted on the basis of a highly selective competitive entrance examination. Students can prepare for the entrance examination in a two-year course following the Baccalauréat in the scientific preparatory classes in Lycées, in the first cycle of university or, sometimes, in the colleges themselves. After admission, studies take between two and five years depending on the college. The colleges award an engineering degree approved by the committee on diplomas and certificates (commission des titres) attached to the Ministry of Higher Education and Research.

    - Four teacher training colleges (écoles normales supérieures - ENS) in Paris, Fontenay/Saint-Cloud, Lyons, and Cachan. These schools set similarly high admission requirements. A highly selective competitive entrance examination prepared in scientific preparatory classes for two years following the Baccalauréat (particularly in "advanced mathematics" and then "special mathematic" classes) or in literary preparatory classes ("advanced literature" and "first-higher" classes). These lead to national university certificates and to the competitive examination for the recruitment of teachers (certificat d'aptitude au professorat de l'enseignement secondaire/CAPES and agrégation).

    - Certain higher education colleges attached to other ministries, in particular:

    - The Ecole nationale d'administration (ENA) which is under the responsibility of the Prime Minister and trains civil servants destined to occupy senior administrative posts.

    - Military training institutions attached to the Ministry of Defence, including schools for the army, navy and air force. Admission to the most prestigious colleges (including the école polytechnique, the école spéciale militaire de Saint-Cyr, the école navale, and the école de l'air de Salon-de-Provence) is on the basis of competitive examinations at the end of the scientific preparatory classes.

    - Mining colleges under the Ministry of Industry accept students on the basis of a competitive examination or of the applicant's qualifications (depending on the case: Baccalauréat + 1 year, Baccalauréat + 2 years or Baccalauréat + 4 years). These colleges award an engineering degree at the end of three or four years.

    - The école nationale des Ponts et Chaussées under the Ministry of Development, doyen of the grandes écoles, recruits students by competitive examination at the end of the scientific preparatory classes or on the basis of qualifications. The college awards an engineering degree at the end of three or four years.

    - Institutions of advanced agricultural training under the Ministry of Agriculture.

    - National colleges of veterinary medicine under the Ministry of Health.

    - Art colleges under the Ministry of Culture.

    - Architecture colleges under the Ministry of Development.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I found this info to be acurate.
    I got this info from ministry of Education in france.

    All private institutions can request state recognition. The Minister for Higher Education grants recognition by decree. Recognized institutions are entitled to receive state subsidies and their students can receive public education grants. Recognized institutions are subject to inspection, and the appointment of their directors and teaching staff is subject to approval by the recteur of the académie.
     
  20. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Troll.

    There are two meanings that seem combined as the term is used on the internet. One meaning is the mythical Scandinavian cave-dwelling creature and the other involves trailing bait to catch fish. The second meaning has been extended to mean trying to bait sexual partners or other objects of desire.

    If someone is called a troll in this forum then the name-caller is likely implying that someone is a loathsome creature who is trying to bait the forum to gain some desired reaction.

    That's not the most elegant explanation but it hopefully does explain.
     

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