International University for Graduate Studies

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by PatsFan, Jan 23, 2005.

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  1. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

    Has anyone had any experience with the International University for Graduate Studies in St. Kitts and Nevis, West Indies? They offer doctorates in the behavioral sciences. They seem kind of sketchy, but claim to be accredited.
     
  2. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

    Thanks for the website. IUGS is on their list of accredited institutions. Either the IUGS website stinks and it's reputable or the accreditation process in St Kitts and Kevis is not too rigorous.
     
  3. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    There have been several previous threads about it, but unfortunately the search function isn't working.

    I'd suggest that you be very careful with this and make sure that you know precisely what you are doing before you send these people any money.

    There's some question about what St. Kitts and Nevis accreditation actually means in academic terms. Several Caribbean islands (and other foreign jurisdictions such as Liberia) have recently turned into 'flag-of-convenience' accreditors for American and European-run schools that affect foreign addresses in hopes of avoiding domestic higher education regulations and finding a way into the international listings. St. Kitts has had those questions raised before with some other schools.

    I did a Google search for 'international university of graduate studies' on .edu domains. It only generated one hit that turned out to be very interesting. It was a controversy at the University of Alaska Fairbanks about the new president of their academic senate who claims a doctorate from IUGS and who has been accused by other faculty of having a degree-mill degree:

    Web_Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "international university of graduate studies" site:.edu. (0.26 seconds)_
    _____
    [RTF] MINUTES UAF FACULTY SENATE MEETING #124 Monday, September 20, 2004 ...

    File Format: Rich Text Format - View as HTML
    ... He charged the committee to find out whether the Ph.D. from the International
    University of Graduate Studies in the Caribbean nation of St. ...

    www.uaf.edu/uafgov/faculty/fsfy05meetings/fsminutes124.rtf


    I did a similar search for 'international university of graduate studies' on .ac.uk domains, and got:

    Your search - "international university of graduate studies" site:.ac.uk - did not match any documents.

    I find it almost incomprehensible that an academically legitimate university that's been in existence since the 1970's, and which offers multiple doctoral programs, wouldn't have received any notice on an American or British academic website.
     
  4. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

    Re: Re: International University for Graduate Studies

    Thanks, Bill. I'm sure you're right. I got a reply from another board with an Oregon website exposing IUGS as unreputable:

    http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html

    (Click on unaccredited colleges)
     
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Um, several?

    Questions have rightly been raised about St. Kitts because they've accredited Berne and IUGS, which are considered substandard.

    However, St. Kitts, Jamaica, and recently Trinidad, are the only three countries in the English-speaking West Indies with an accreditation process. Since Jamaica and Trinidad have no history of questionable accreditation, Bill's offensively broad "flag-of-convenience" statement is similar to saying that "those U.S. states are just flags of convenience for degree mills" based solely on seeing Wyoming or Mississippi.

    What often happens is that degree mills will incorporate in a small country with no process, then falsely claim that they're "accredited" or "approved" by that country, even though the country has no knowledge if this. St. Regis is the most infamous example.

    I'm encouraged to have read a strategy document from the OECS Education Reform Unit suggesting that they are willing to take on the role of tertiary accreditor for the small states in the Eastern Caribbean (including St. Kitts). I think that would be an excellent step toward cleaning up the image of a region that has been abused by unscrupulous foreign degree mills.

    -=Steve=-
     
  6. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    I've been involved in some of the past discussions on this school. My concerns come in three parts. The first is that the school is essentially unaccredited. All this St. Kitts and Nevis nonsense is just that, nonsense. The second concern is that the woman who runs the place states that her doctorate is in Hypnotherapy or something like that and there is not, to the best of my knowledge, any accredited doctoral program in Hypnotherapy offered anywhere (and I mean anywhere ). This means that your degree would come from an unaccredited school and your dissertation advisor would hold an unaccredited doctorate. My third concern is that when I contacted this person (sorry, I can't remember her name) to ask a few questions regarding the above listed concerns, she never responded to my inquiries. Not a good sign. My opinion might be different if I could get some answers but until then I'd advise extreme caution.
    Jack
     
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Is that because it's a small state, or because they've accredited questionable institutions?

    I ask because I want to get a sense of people on the board what they'd require to respect a small state's accreditation system. For example, people here seem largely to dismiss St. Kitts, but not Malta, the population of which is less than 400,000 or Iceland, whose population is only about a quarter of a million.

    -=Steve=-
     
  8. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Based on the information I've learned (much of it on this board) the government of St. Kitts and Nevis does not actually have any expertise in the area of accrediting Doctoral level universities and they do not have the capacity to do this. No one has ever been able to demonstrate that the St. Kitts "accreditation process" consists of any real examination or review of anything. To me it seems to be a rubber stamp. If I am wrong in this I will gladly admit it but I'll need to see some real evidence first.
    Jack
     
  9. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Based on the information I've learned (much of it on this board) the government of St. Kitts and Nevis does not actually have any expertise in the area of accrediting Doctoral level universities and they do not have the capacity to do this. No one has ever been able to demonstrate that the St. Kitts "accreditation process" consists of any real examination or review of anything. To me it seems to be a rubber stamp. If I am wrong in this I will gladly admit it but I'll need to see some real evidence first.
    Jack
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's fair. Frankly, based on accreditation of IUGS and Berne, I too am unimpressed with St. Kitts's process. The frustrating thing for me as someone active in the region is that many people don't realize that not all Caribbean countries are alike, and think, "Oh, those banana republics are all alike" when they see St. Kitts.

    So, what would you consider sufficient expertise for an accreditation board to be able to judge such programs? Were the OERU to take this on, for example, what would you advise them to do?

    -=Steve=-
     
  11. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Perhaps someone of the stature of Dr. Bear could be asked to advise a government on such matters but I would not presume to do so. I simply offered an opinion that is based on available information. I don't even know much about the formal accreditation process here in the USA. Despite all that, I might start by having an official office with some real people who have some expertise in higher education, someone with a PhD themselves, someone with an email address who answers questions such as "What, exactly, is the full, formal accreditation process that St. Kitts employs in their accreditation of a university such as IUGS?" Then I would expect a very detailed answer that might be subjected to further questions. They might be able to give explicit reports on how this (or some other) university operates in regards to quality control, etc. They might be able to list all their faculty members as well as their credentials. They might be able to describe, in detail, all the requirements for all their programs in a very straight-forward, unhesitating, non-bullshit manner. I think you see where I'm going with this. Any real university or real accreditor could do this easily and instantly. If you ask even the simplest questions and you start getting the run-around then the you've already gotten your answer.
    Jack
     
  12. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: Um, several?

    If 1/3 of those accreditation processes are iffy, then that's not a very good percentage.

    But I think that the 'flag of convenience' phenomenon is most obvious in the off-shore medical school sector, where the prize is a WHO listing and eligibility to take the USMLE here in the states. Here's just some of them. The word "several" certainly seems to be justified:

    All Saints U. of Medicine, Aruba

    http://asum.meerc.com/

    American International School of Medicine, Guyana

    http://www.aism.edu/

    American University of the Caribbean, St. Martin

    http://www.aucmed.edu/

    Central American Health Sciences University, Belize

    http://www.cahsu.edu/

    Grace University School of Medicine, St. Kitts

    http://www.grace-usom.org/

    Ross University School of Medicine, Dominica

    http://www.rossmed.edu/

    Saba University School of Medicine, Saba

    http://www.saba.edu/

    Saint James School of Medicine, Bonaire

    http://www.sjsm.org/

    Spartan Health Sciences University, St. Lucia

    http://campus.fortunecity.com/college/239/spartanmed13003.htm

    St. George's University, Grenada

    http://www.sgu.edu/

    St. Luke's University School of Medicine, Belize

    http://www.stluke.edu.bz/

    I don't mean to suggest that all of these schools are mills. I'm confident that some of them (like St. George's) are probably reasonably decent. But my point is that if some of these schools are sound, that's unlikely to be the work of these island governments.

    Here's a story about the University of Science, Arts and Technology on Montserrat, which accused the island government of "bungling" its application for a WHO listing. What really happened was that the WHO wanted the island governor to sign the application because Montserrat is a British dependent territory. The governor forwarded the application to London, which proceeded to put all WHO applications on hold until it could create a quality assurance mechanism for medical schools setting up shop in its territories. That certainly implies that the original application that the island government sent to Geneva wasn't the result of a QA process. And that in turn raises questions about how many other islands just forward their WHO applications in the same way.

    http://www.themontserratreporter.com/archives/2004/september/24News/local/story1D_02.htm

    The bottom line seems to be that few if any of these schools are owned or operated by local island people. They exist in large part to serve students from the United States, Canada and Europe. They choose off-shore island addresses because that allows them to avoid much tougher regulations back home and to acquire WHO listings with little difficulty. The islands seem interested in attracting them because they promise to bring money and jobs.

    I don't think that the words 'flag of convenience' is inappropriate.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2005
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Um, several?


    It's a good bet if you see unaccredited and associated with Wyoming or Mississippi then it's a degree mill. I understand your point but disagree with your anaology.
     
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Caribbean Medical Schools

    If 1/3 of those accreditation processes are iffy, then that's not a very good percentage.

    Sure it is -- for Jamaica and Trinidad. My point is that it's inappropriate to tar one country when a different country has acted undesirably just because they have something in common.

    Consider Estonia and Belarus. Both are former Soviet states, both are in Eastern Europe, yet one is a thriving free market republic now in the EU, while the other remains mired in command economy despotism.


    But I think that the 'flag of convenience' phenomenon is most obvious in the off-shore medical school sector, where the prize is a WHO listing and eligibility to take the USMLE here in the states. Here's just some of them. The word "several" certainly seems to be justified:

    Oh, okay, I see what you're saying. I hadn't thought of the medical schools when you said "flag of convenience" because to me that phrase connotes that the school isn't really there, like when ships that have never been within a thousand miles of Liberia are nonetheless registered there.


    I don't mean to suggest that all of these schools are mills. I'm confident that some of them (like St. George's) are probably reasonably decent. But my point is that if some of these schools are sound, that's unlikely to be the work of these island governments.

    While I can't speak for schools on other islands, as far as Ross University School of Medicine in Dominica, that's not so. As much as having a medical school is an economic boon, no one wants a substandard institution. I asked my fiancee's mum at Dominica's Ministry of Education how they approached oversight for Ross, and she said they set up a panel of doctors to advise the government on the quality of the medical school's education.


    Here's a story about the University of Science, Arts and Technology on Montserrat, which accused the island government of "bungling" its application for a WHO listing. What really happened was that the WHO wanted the island governor to sign the application because Montserrat is a British dependent territory. The governor forwarded the application to London, which proceeded to put all WHO applications on hold until it could create a quality assurance mechanism for medical schools setting up shop in its territories. That certainly implies that the original application that the island government sent to Geneva wasn't the result of a QA process.

    Perhaps, or perhaps since Montserrat isn't an independent country, there were colonial politics involved.


    And that in turn raises questions about how many other islands just forward their WHO applications in the same way.

    I suppose I can see why you would say that, and I agree that Ministries of Education should be open on how they approach QA, including publicly releasing their audits and so forth.

    Still, one can't use one island as an example for all the others, particularly Montserrat, which has just three thousand people. The islands may be close together on a map, and have a common British history, but they differ culturally and vary quite a bit in sophistication.


    The bottom line seems to be that few if any of these schools are owned or operated by local island people.

    I think Richard Ross is an American, but my understanding is that the school hires Dominican faculty and staff when they can. I know an excellent local psychiatrist they picked up to chair their department when the position became vacant.

    I don't know about the other schools in the region. But even if none were owned locally or made it a point to hire locally, I don't see why it would be particularly important, at least for QA purposes.


    They exist in large part to serve students from the United States, Canada and Europe.

    More like India, then North America. There are many Indians at Ross in Domincia, and I remember last time I was on St. Kitts seeing that one of the medical schools was flying the flags of St. Kitts/Nevis, the U.S., Canada, and India. Still, I understand that most of them end up practicing in the U.S. and the USMLE preparation is a major goal.

    If your point was that Caribbean medical schools largely serve students from countries other than where they're located, sure, I'll concede it. On the other hand, I don't think that's objectionable, in fact I think it's almost like setting up an export industry in education. Considering how many U.S. schools are complaining about how difficult it has become for foreigners to get visas to study in the U.S., that's hardly a unique approach.


    They choose off-shore island addresses because that allows them to avoid much tougher regulations back home and to acquire WHO listings with little difficulty.

    That seems awfully simplistic. I suppose there probably are some regulations they want to avoid, but since their graduates still have to be able to pass the USMLE for the school to keep operating, quality is part of a positive feedback loop that includes student success and profit. I expect that avoiding taxes is a more important reason to locate out of the U.S. than regulation.

    You may be right about the WHO listing, but I'm not sure why it would matter to them, since it's a listing in the International Medical Education Directory of the Foundation for Advancement of International Medical Education and Research that enables one's graduates to sit the USMLE. Does a WHO listing help their grads practice in Europe?


    The islands seem interested in attracting them because they promise to bring money and jobs.

    Very true, but they also bring prestige, particularly when the schools do a good job preparing students to pass the USMLE, and thus presumably become good doctors. They're also great because they're an option for locals as well, increasing the number of local doctors -- and the incentive for the country to expect the school to be "reasonably decent", as you put it.

    -=Steve=-
     
  15. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

    Check out the St. Kitts & Nevis accreditation website. It certainly lacks the content of accreditation standards in the US
     
  16. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Yes, but more importantly . . .


    GO PATS ! ! !

    (sorry, Off-Topic, I know)
    Jack
     
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Of regional accreditation, I'll agree. The comparison's been made to me that St. Kitts's accreditation seems equivalent to California state approval.

    Personally, I wouldn't consider any of the postgraduate schools accredited by St. Kitts, other than the proven medical schools (and that's hypothetical; I'm not interested in med school) because it's clear they're not respected.

    I would prefer that the jurisdictions opened up their processes to scrutiny, or better yet, that the OERU steppd up to handle that throughout the sub-region. They say they want to, time will tell.

    -=Steve=-
     
  18. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

    The Pats are a dynasty in the making, Jack! That is pretty exciting. I'm actually a native of Connecticut, myself.
     

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