Louisiana Baptist University

I have a Bachelor degree from Louisiana Baptist University and was wondering if I should put this on a resume, or use it for professional consideration. I would like to have your honest opinion on this, please. Thank you.

 

IMO a BA from LBU likely is an honorable degree, and I would list as I list my LV degrees.

Where LBU and I don't see eye to eye is that IMO the school lacks a sufficiently qualified faculty to offer grad degrees with concentrations in anything save, possibly, ministerial studies. That is IMO with few exceptions one teaching grad courses in Church History or Systematic or Historical Theology or NT or OT should have an accredited doc in the area of instruction.

I suggest you use the search function here to find several discussions about LBU.

 

LBU is a ministry oriented institution. The 2005-2006 LBU catalog states the following: The University's mission is to provide rigorous, high quality academic study for experienced professionals...through scholarly inquiry and constantly improving ministerial and professional practice.

The primary focus of LBU is to provide ongoing academic opportunities for those engaged in the practice of ministry, e.g., pastors, missionaries, Christian school teachers, etc.

 

"Primary focus" and "ministry" orientation aside, friend Russell, if the LBU docs are not also purposed to be suitable also for preparing professors to teach grad Bible/Theology (academic subjects), then exactly what is it that makes those of the LBU faculty who only have LBU docs, ie the majority , qualified to teach grad courses in these disciplines?

 

I do not entirely disagree with your thesis, Bill. IMO, LBU may perhaps be better served to restructure some of its degree programs, i.e., emphases and nomenclature.

 

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Russell



I'm glad that you somewhat agree.

Since this topic relates to what constitutes a good distance learning program in Theological Studies, let me make another post here to attempt to clearly express my point of view.

I think an interesting dissertational topic might be an exploration of the relationship between Christian principles and Christian higher education.

As it is, based on my older LBU catalogue, a contradiction would exist, in my IMO, between the premise that the LBU graduate degrees are mostly "ministry oriented" rather than academically oriented and the phenomenon that the majority of LBU profs have doctorates only from LBU.

That phenomenon requires, IMO, the conclusion that for LBU's part, they think the LBU doc adequately prepares one to teach grad work in academic subjects. Therefore, the premise that LBU docs are meant to be but "ministry oriented" is suspicious to me. Both coursework and degrees offered by LBU suggest rather that LBU thinks it curricula is academically oriented--not just ministry. [I know you did not say ' 'just' or either or.']

In regard to the courses, eg, if one peruses the coursework offered in the MDiv program, it is immediately apparant that about 60% of the coursework is in academic sort of subjects as Systematic Theology, Church History, Old Testament Interpretation, and New Testament interpretation [as opposed to such ministerial practics as how to preach or how to plant churches].

In regard to such coursework, keeping in mind that these offerings are graduate courses in academic subjects, it follows in my opinion, that those courses should normally only be taught by those with advanced and accredited degrees in the area of instruction. EG, Old Testament Interpretation at the MA/MDiv level should be taught by one with an accredited (ATS sort of) ThM or doc in Old Testament! But as per that LBU catalogue and faculty roster, this is not the practice at all at LBU .

In regard to degrees, if LBU desires to offer a PhD in in The School of Biblical Studies (as opposed in practical theology) which PhD includes both the writing of a dissertation in Biblical Studies and required coursework in 600 level "classes" such as : Advanced Textual Studies ; Archeology of the Ancient Near East ; Christian Philosophy ; Advanced Studies in John ; Old Testament Theology ; and, Advanced Theological Survey, then, IMO, LBU needs to have only professors with accredited doctorates in the appropriate fields teaching such courses and supervising such dissertations.

It is an ongoing issue with me that to be "Christian" in the fullest sense a Christian school which trains Christian leaders must have the same sort of virtues expected of the Christian leaders it trains. But part of what is expected of Christian leaders is to be deserving of the respect of those outside of the Church , not just in it (1 Timothy 3:7) and to give oneself fully to the learning of the Christian Tradition (Titus 1:9;1 Timothy 4:15).

Therefore, IMO , a school which enters academia by offering a PhD in Biblical Studies and by requiring that 2/3 of its ministerial degree to be in academics, to be deserving of the respect of those outside (and inside) of the church, needs to have a faculty and a curricula which approximates the expected standard expectations for those who teach and learn at PhD and grad levels.

And the students in such an environ, in order at that level, to give themselves fully to understanding, need to be exposed to professors who have experienced the rigor of accredited graduate programs, who themselves understand, not just chucked full of the study of the dogma of its own denomination.

Not to do this, IMO, may not just be less than desirable education, it also may be less than desirable Christianity. I can understand the motivation to propogate the particulars of one's own denomination. But I make the observation that other denominations are able to have denominational schools for that purpose (I've graduated from two) and yet they preserve both those distinctions and preserve solid academics at the same time by having only a qualified faculty and sound and standard curricula.




[As a postscript let me say that I am not suggesting that these men and women who learn or teach at LBU are deficit in their love for God. It's just that apparently they and I have different perspectives regarding what constitutes good higher Christian education. Neither am I saying that my morals are higher in general than theirs as I oft fail to do what I should.]

 

And in response to what I've just found by googling:

I see that someone with a pseudonym beginning with "J" on a Baptist discussion board is sharing his or her good experiences at LBU in a grad program. By this testimonial perhaps others will enter LBU grad programs.

I wish that one had the conviction of your partial agreement with me expressed above and so would express there on that Baptist board comments on such issues as whether an LBU doctorate really qualifies one to teach doctoral level studies in Biblical archeology or systematic theology or textual studies or church history or advanced work in OT/NT Books and to supervise doctoral dissertations in these areas .

I wish that one there would be candid and say that LBU needs to change some of its emphases or programs because the faculty is just not academically qualified to do what all the school now so presumptuously wishes it to offer.

It is curious that a denomination that is cessationist rather than charismatic attaches to the unaccredited degrees of its faculty such great charisma

 

Questions from the uninitiated

Which agency would accredit this school if it were to seek accreditation?

Is there some doctrinal reason not to seek accredtiation?

 

Re: Questions from the uninitiated

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No, there is no doctrinal reason for LBU to not seek accreditation. LBU is in the same Baptist denomination (BBFI) of its sister school- Baptist Bible College (Springfield, Ill). BBC is accredited through the CHEA approved ABHE(formally AABC). Baptist Bible College offers some grad accredited degrees as MA and MDiv. .

However, if one looks at the faculty roster of BBC he will find a wide assortment of fulltime members with accredited grad degrees from such as: Purdue ; Univ of Mo. ;Regent; Univ of No Col; Westminster; Grace; Univ No Texas; Baptist Bible Seminary (RA). I see no fulltime faculty member there at BBC with his/her highest degree from LBU!

Possibly that comparison of the faculty of LBU with the faculty of BBC will suggest one reason why the former does not seek accreditation , and will show why I feel as I do [as reflected in the above posts ] about the importance of academically qualified faculty.

The goal of doing grad studies in Theological subjects should much consist of the desire to learn those subjects, not just getting a degree. But the potential for learning IMO , and obviously in the opinion of recognized accrediting agencies, highly correlates to the accredited academic preparation of the instructor.

Obviously by changing some programs and some faculty LBU , if it thought ATS too liberal, could seek TRACS accreditation as does very conservative Bob Jones Univ or regional accreditation as has the very conservativeDallas Theological Seminary. The issue is not doctrinal but the lack of a willingness or ability to conform to the expectations of accreditors.

 

Oh! I thought BJU was unaccredited.

 

They are but are seeking accreditation.

 

Bill,

Your comparison between BBC and LBU is indeed interesting, but I think it leaves something out. The Baptist Bible College is a BBFI (Baptist Bible Fellowship International) denominational school. Louisiana Baptist University/Louisiana Baptist Theological Seminary is a BBFI “approved” school. http://www.bbfi.org/colleges.htm That’s not a shot at LBU, but I don’t think they necessarily have the denomination challenging them to raise the bar as they would if the BBFI owned the school.

Craig Hargis evaluated LBU in February 2002, and said that he believed they had an eye on TRACS accreditation, but wanted to get all their ducks in a row first. They have built up the student body successfully, they have built a new facility, but they seem to have made no progress in hiring more faculty members with credible research doctorates. That third area is necessary if they want to take a run at TRACS accreditation.

Dave

 

Yes, LBU is one of six BBFI "approved" schools, only two of which are owned by the organization.

 

The primary advisor for my program at LBU (practical theology/pastoral ministry) holds a BBC undergrad degree and an LBU doctorate. The other two members of the dissertation committee earned doctorates from Liberty University and California Graduate School of Theology. LU is RA, and while CGSOT is UA, many of their faculty hold RA docs. The dissertation was read and critiqued quite thoroughly by each of the three members, with numerous edits (mostly grammatical) required before the binding was approved.

My earlier comment about LBU degrees being primarily oriented toward ministry application was not intended to diminish the academic nature of the degrees. Although the subject matter was in practical theology, the dissertation guidelines required a particular level of writing/documentation. The DMin dissertation at Erskine, although not a research degree but ministry oriented, was written within certain academic guidelines.

Overall, I was pleased with LBU's program. Like Craig Hargis, I believe the school to be a serious/sincere effort at offering substantive academic/ministerial training to a specific segment of Christian ministry. Over the past several years LBU has taken steps to improve their programs. From my experience with the school I believe this trend will continue. Is LBU for everyone? No. But for some, as pre-TRACS Luther Rice did for many years, LBU meets their needs.

 

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Would you clarify whether or not you would say that LBU is right now offering a "substantive" PhD in Biblical Studies or ThD in "Advanced Theological or Prophetic Studies" given the unaccredited nature of the degrees of its faculty?

I think your comparison of Luther Rice with LBU is interesting. I just looked at their faculty and did not see even one member whose highest degree is unaccredited. Yet according to Walston's stats 83% of the LBU admin and faculty have UA degrees.

If the LBU programs are "substantive" IYO despite the huge preponderance of UA degrees in its faculty, what adjective would you use to describe the programs of LR with its "accredited" faculty? Simply STUPENDOUS or just "substantive too?

I'm sure that the LBU PhD meets the needs and aspirations of the LBU faculty and others, unlike yourself, who would not think of attemting to acquire an accredited doc. Yet, some of those who do struggle to get accredited PhDs/ThDs in Biblical or Systematic studies look , I'm sure, in wonder at their brethren on that other path and shake their heads

 

I can only respond from my personal experience, Bill, ie, in the area of practical theology. One aspect, IMO, which LBU needs to restructure is its degree nomenclature. The School of Biblical Studies awards the degree in "Bible and Theology." While some courses from both disciplines may overlap, IMO, the degree title should be more specific.

Is LBU right now offering substantive PhD programs in practical theology? From my experience, yes, if substantive is defined as a course of study requiring legitimate course work and dissertation. Degrees in the other disciplines appear to be set up similarly, yet I have no experience in those areas. Are the degree programs on par with DTS, TEDS or UZ? Perhaps not. Is LBU on a progressive track of self improvement? From what I have seen I believe so.

The comparison of LBU/LRS was in regard to Luther Rice's history of continually improving its programs of study. The school began in 1962, with all initial faculty teaching w/o financial remuneration. LRS was mocked and maligned for its DL programs, yet continued to move progressively foward in terms of quality of studies. As late as 1998 (post-TRACS), of nineteen listed faculty, eleven had their doctorates from LRS. It would be interesting to know how many of these were earned pre-TRACS. LRS dropped its ThD program (which never was accredited) some years ago, but not before men such as Charles Stanley, Spiros Zodhiates, etc., earned the degree. Given several positive moves over the past few years, LBU appears to be moving in a similar direction.