Ks Dentist with MD degree from UHSA-Antigua loses appeal on use of MD title

http://www.kscourts.org/kscases/ctapp/2004/20040917/91403.htm

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The guy has an MD degree, but he's not a licensed physician. Therefore he can't use the MD designation in a professional capacity -- e.g. on business cards, etc.

This seems to me to be similar to the situation with other professions. For example, I have an engineering degree. But I can't put out a shingle (or business card, etc.) saying "Oxpecker, engineer" because I'm not a registered professional engineer.

Is that all that's going on here?

 

UHSA status also enters into the opinion

His MD is from University of Health Sciences Antigua. The quality of his training there also enters into the court's decision. It's not just that he is unlicensed:

G

 

And similar to lawyers. A juris doctorate does not a lawyer make. In the U.S., typically, it requires passing the bar.



Tom Nixon

 

antigua

Indeed it would appear that is part of the ruling. Antigua (www.uhsa.com) is an online medical school scam catering to dc's/podiatrists/dentists who don't leave their medical practies but 'attend' virtually during their science portions of medical school. Then they must find a friendly doctor to allow them to shadow them during the clinical parts. Not like normal medical school. Personally I think medicine is something that needs to be done handson and the professor seeing the whites of your eyes but call me traditional.

 

Re: antigua

I see Azsekptic that you make your runs to all the message board. Even here I cannot escape your hidden motives.

Anywho, Your idea of what these student do once they have completed their basic science is wrong. They do not have to find friendly doctors to allow them to shadow during clinicals. They do clinical rotations just as any other medical student does. They then do residency just as any other medical student does. They also take USMLE as any other medical student does and have to apply for ECFMG certification just as any other foreign medical student has to do before applying For licensure. Where does that spell scam?

Dr. Thomas in this case, was not interested in being a licensed physician. I only went to UHSA to obtain the MD degree. I'm sure he had to do clinical rotation in order for him to obtain an MD degree. Just because he stopped once he obtained that MD degree doesn't mean that his education was worthless. There was no need for him to do a residency because he was not interested in being a licensed physician.

Was brought up in the case was how Dr. Thomas went to Antiqua for 8 weeks as required by UHSA and finished the rest of his basic science via distance learning. This is what the board says is imcompetent to traditional medical education. Well of it's incompetent to traditional medical education if that's all you think Dr. Thomas did to recieve a medical degree. You can't get a medical degree in 8 weeks. I seriously doubt that the medical board even looked into Dr. Thomas education since he never applied for licensure. So they really had no idea what subjects he studied. All they do know is that he spent 8 weeks in Antiqua.

Now, I'm not the one who agree's with advance credit for non-medical education. However, Dr. Thomas is a licensed dentist. There are some courses covered that are covered in any traditional medical school. This also goes for DC's, Nurses's, PA's or other health professional. Granted in a traditional medical school, these health professionals would have to begin from the beginning where everyone else starts. However, Anatomy, Physiology, Biochemisty is the same no matter where you study it from. So, I do believe that if a student has taken these course in relationship to the medical field, they should be given credit for those courses. Pretty much the same way if you went to one medical school and transfered to another medical school, you wouldn't be required to start from the beginning. That's just my beliefe and some may not agree with me. I don't, however, agree with advance standing to the point where someone not transfering from a medical can obtain such advance credit that they are able to skip basic science entirely. That's different. That what the medical boards dont want to see happen. I also don't agree with applying life experience towards advance standing in terms of basic medical science. I don't know of any medical schools that will do this anyway. At least not at the medical that I attend. We do have students at my medical school who have gotten advance credit but none of them have been DC, PA's or nurses. The few students that I know who have advanced credit are transfer students from US medical schools. Yes we do have students who have attend US medical schools in our school and NO they weren't expelled or failed out. Most were students who had family problems or other situation which required them to take a leave of absence and they didn't want to have to miss out on their education due to this leave of absence.

As far as you being traditional Az, I can understand that. However, what you paint as a traditional medical education is slowly becoming something of the past. It used to be the way you described. But it isn't like that any more even in US medical schools. The majority of what learned is self taught. Ask any traditional medical student. It's this way now because students have access to lecture notes online, dissection video's, video feeds of lecture, pre-recorded lectures and of course textbooks. Back in time, there was none of this. Students had to show up for lectures or they would miss out. Technology has advance to the point now, you don't have to have operating theathers anymore. Operations are recorded and student can download them at their own will and watch from the comfort of their home. There are sites students can go to now where they can hear the difference between heart arrythmia's. Which is very helpful for when you go into clinicals, you know how to distinquish between a normal sinus arrythmia from that of a fluttered atrial/ventrical arrythmia. This is something you can't learn in lectures.

Nonetheless, I'm getting off on a tangent here. UHSA is a good school, it's banned in 4 states within the US. However, the reasons behind that I don't know. I'm not a student of UHSA. I do think it has to do with it's distance learning course. However, a school that is a fraud or scam as Az would have you to believe would have no licensed graduates in the US when it's been in operation for more than 10yrs. I would agree with Az if there were no licensed graduates. However, one only needs to vist UHSA website and look on their alumni page to see the many students that have been licensed from their school in the US. You tell me, how can a school that been in operation for more than 10yrs, has licensed graduates in the US be a scam?

-Dr.2B

 

You may not be violating the TOS but your manners are terrible and your English is worse.

Who the hell is Azsekpitc?
What does it mean to escape somebody's hidden motives?
"What these student do"--what it they does?
"Was brought up in the case was how"--OK, how?
"imcompetent to traditional medical education"--amything like this?
"Well of it's incompetent to traditional..."--or are thi's like that?
"Antiqua"--oh, yes, the collector's tropical paradise!
"Now I'm not the one who agree's with advance credit..."--good thing, too.
"This also goes for DC's, Nurses's, PA's or other health professional. Granted in a traditional medical school, these health professionals would have to begin from the beginning where everyone else starts. However, Anatomy, Physiology, Biochemisty is the same no matter where you study it from. So, I do believe that if a student has taken these course in relationship to the medical field, they should be given credit for those courses. Pretty much the same way if you went to one medical school and transfered to another medical school, you wouldn't be required to start from the beginning. That's just my beliefe and some may not agree with me."--Pick one from column A, one from column B, forsooth.
"You being traditional Az"--Watch whom you're calling a Hungarian definite article, buster.
"Back in time, there was none of this. Students had to show up for lectures or they would miss out." Mel Brooks' 2000 Year Old Man mentions folks running around calling themselves "Doccor"; was this then?
"You tell me, how can a school that been in operation for more than 10yrs, has licensed graduates in the US be a scam?" No fair! You started this (or are it thi's). You tell me--I ain't doing you're work for you.
- - - - - - - -
As I think about it, I'm quite happy with the Cebuana Firecracker, as I call my physician. She's at least coherent, reactionary old whizbang that she is.

 

Ok, moving right alone. However, before I do so, No TOS where violated in my response. Sorry you don't like what I posted, but it's the truth.

-Dr.2B

 

You'd better move right alone coz I ain't moving right or left witchu.

You are illiterate to the point of incoherence, you jabber about somebody who isn't here, and then you want me to take you or your medical "education" seriously? Not a chance.

Disagree witchu? It's you I worry about; your ideas (if any) will never go near a live human being with scalpel or syringe. Also, nobody said you violated the TOS. Canchu reed?
------------
The worst of all this is that there are quite legitimate Caribbean medical schools whose graduates must contend with being lumped in with this sort of thing. Pity.

 

Again, I have no idea what your talking about. This is a message board where people leave message. Dean will be back. I'm in my right to respond. You don't like that, so you attack me. Hmmm, you feel better now? No personal attack was directed at Dean which has obviously set you off on this tangent. Word of advice, it's ok to disagree. That's is of course if you live in the US.

I'm not asking you to take anything seriously. That's not my responsibility. And, surely you don't have to worry about me, I'm well taken care of. And FYI, I'm a surgical tech by profession. I've used enough scalpels and syringes in my life time. So, if you really want to know how I think, just ask.

Lastly, do you even have a clue what the definition of illiterate is? The way you use the term speaks for itself. Try to figure that one out. Quite frankly, I would never attend a caribbean medical school. So your right, graduates must not contend with me since I don't attend a degree mill.

-Dr.2B

 

Aaah, so Dean and Azpketics (you say) are the same person?
Well, now that clears everything all up. If I had only read everything you ever posted on some other indeterminate venue I would have known that. Silly me!

Now if I could see the invisible, I would see how Dean or Askhabad or whatever his name is is pursuing you with his motives (or whatever).

In that case, it's OK to advocate irresponsible policies in an unintelligible manner, and to exhibit your higher learning through ignorance of basic English grammar and syntax. I am not, BTW, attacking you. I am attacking your verbal incompetence and suggesting that it does not reflect well upon your ostensible exalted status as a medical student.

Since all the medical personnel who attend me are completely competent in English, even if it is in some cases a second or even third language for them (and they are pretty smart into the bargain), you are quite right to advise me not to worry. For myself, I don't.

Nize have a day.

 

Such butchery of the English language has rarely been seen. But presumably it's not Dr.2B's first language. So we shouldn't be too harsh.

 

Such butchery of the English Language has rarely been seen by a medical student. And, yes, english is my first language.

If you think my command of english grammer is shocking, try reading patient charts and visting SDN. I'm sure you will have an anuerysm within the left atrial after reading such shocking butchery from medical students from around the world.

What has this world come too?

 

First, allow me to say this, the first part of my post was not directed towards anyone but Dean aka Azsekptic. I didn't know I had to clarify myself so that everyone knows whom I'm addressing. It was directed towards him.

Second, Your correct in saying that my post was not intelligible in certain parts. That's understandable. I did not read what I had typed. It happens when your trying to type as fast as you think.

Third, if this is, as you say, an attempt to advocate irresponsible policies in an unintelligible manner, and to exhibit your higher learning through ignorance of basic English grammar and syntax, then what more can I say? You have voiced your opinion and perhaps you are right.

You say your attacking my verbal incompetence and suggesting that it does not reflect well upon my ostensible exalted status as a medical student. Ok fine. I'll warn you since the english language reflects upon the ostensible exalted status of a medical student, that you shouldn't ever vist any medical student's website nor any medical student's forum particulary those sites which foreign medical students are in membership. If you think my command of the english language almost made you bring up your lunch, you'll be shocked at what you'll find there. Not that I'm making an excuse for my incompetence and ignorance of basic english garmmar and syntax. After all, I am verbally incompetent and ignorant of basic english grammar and syntax. Have mercy my dear teacher.

Lastly, there is no need for you to cast worry upon me. I have made it into medical school. How ignorant can I be?

-Dr.2B

 

In the immortal words of Chief Justice William Howard Taft, "God knows."

 

8 weeks?

Hi Dr.2B,

Does the court's statement that "Thomas' use of the M.D. designation could mislead the public to believe that his medical education and training is similar to that of a licensed M.D. when, in fact, he only has 8 weeks of medical training" describe the length of time you are required to train too?

G

 

Interesting ruling!

Curious, most foreign schools of medicine do not have the designation M.D. My uncle in Denmark uses the Latin Candidatus Medicinae. I've seen many other countries have the designation MBBS. In Mexico, they use Titulo de Cirujano.

Would it be legal in the U.S. to use foreign titles(initials) after your name that are for all intensive purposes equivalent to MD? Is this a display of an academic credential or a misrepresentation to the general public?

Also, I would imagine on the curriculum vitae (CV), one is able to list all credentials, schooling, etc. without being in violation of the law.
Perhaps it varies from state to state.

 

Re: 8 weeks?

However, it appears that they would have allowed him to use the title had he passed the medical boards in the US, despite what they consider a substandard education.
-Pat

 

I’ve had the same question about MBBS (medical bachelor/bachelor of surgery) degrees and the equivalence to an MD. I believe that in several countries, the MD is considered a higher degree, but I do no know that this is universally accepted. Is it common for a licensed physician with an MBBS to represent that they have an MD on a CV or a business card? Again, I’ve no idea, but if anyone does, I would be interested in hearing.

Cheers,
Tony