Negative Press for CCU, KWU, & PWU

The link below will take you to the National Society for Professional Engineer's web site. Not-too-flattering article on California Coast, Kennedy Western and Pacific Western

http://www.nspe.org/etweb/10704diplomamills.asp

 

But deserved, nevertheless.

 

The article states

These mills are described by GAO as nontraditional, unaccredited, postsecondary schools that offer degrees for a relatively flat fee, promote the award of academic credits based on life experience, and do not require any classroom instruction. Kennedy-Western University, California Coast University, and Pacific Western University are examples cited by GAO.

As far as I know, CCU does not give credits based on life experience, and as a exclusively DL school it would not have classroom instruction. That does not mean it is a degree mill.

just my opinion

Jimmy

 

Maybe you are right, but as far as CCU is concerned, they have adapted all requirements to seek to meet DETC accreditation standards as they are seeking to gain initial accreditation. The problem is this degree mill problem has been a long time coming and should have been dealt with much earlier than now. In defense of CCU, I would like to point out the following: 1st. CCU has just posted their 2004-2005 catalog and bulletin that reflects their curriculum program which is not a flat cost as in the past but is now on PER CREDIT HOUR cost to met DETC standards. They also do not offer anything remotely to Engineering as in the past, Nor Doctorates as we already know. Simply 6 programs. that's it! I had just posted a response in regards to my enrollment in CCU's BS/MBA program and stated the rigorous curriculum that I still had to take ( More than TESC or Excelsior required). Again, I was not that familiar with accreditation and actually was " accepted " into KW's MBA program ( without a B.S. ). and would only have to complete 6 courses. I am sure glad that I didn't go with KW, but maybe I should have looked into a regional program, but cost was a issue and this led me to enroll in CCU. This school isn't for everybody and as always, licensure requirements should be looked into before starting a program if a person needs it. I am doing this more for personal reasons like CCU says " Finish what you Started." CCU had me complete 22 courses for my BS in management, did not accept a D from a regionally accredited associates degree I had, ( TESC did accept it though), This coming from a individual with 10 years of hotel General manager experience, a CHA designation ( highest professional designation in the Hotel industry), a Johnson & Wales University associates degree and a Ivy League professional master certification from Cornell university's School of Hotel Administration. I would say that CCU's curriculum requirements and PLA is pretty stringent as I am sure some regionally accredited universities would probably require less of me for completion of a management B.S. Again...DEGREE MILL?? I stated this also on another post. If I wanted to obtain a degree for no work. I would not want to wait for 1 academic year per degree at the minimum to be awarded and complete a program. I would want it fedex'ed or overnighted and backdated to a time when I should have graduated with my B.S.,like (10 years ago!!) Degree Mills will do just that. In all fairness, I do hope to not see alot of hoopla on CCU that could prevent them from obtaining their DETC accreditation in Jan. 05 after all the changes and work they are putting into it simply because of all the negative attention that is being placed. CCU shouldn't even be discussed with KW. Remember, this diploma mill stuff didn't just happen overnight. The problem is it is now on the top burners of everyone's mind and should have been dealt with long before now. CCU was a leading Distance learning school long before the lucrative entrepreneurs started Degree mills for " prior Experience." creating this REAL BS. There are alot of good distance learning choices out there now than there was 10 years ago when CCU was one of the few. I just hope that CCU will be given a fair OPPORTUNITY just like Western Governors was given so they too can be in the same ranks in the future.

 

Hi JN

You are comparing apples to oranges in a number of ways. As you say this had been a long time coming. CCU has had 30 to get accredited and never bothered. Now that many in and out of government are classifying them with K-W and other degree mills, they want to become accredited.

Certainly late is better than never, but they are reaping the rewards of their own decisions. I hope they do get accredited, but it may very well take awhile.

WGU is whole different situation. They were looking at accreditation before they even existed. They worked for and got DETC approval as an interim step and then took the additional effort to get full RA approval.

 

CCU being labeled as a degree mill is undeserved except from the perspective that they've been unaccredited for so long, they will get lumped into the degree mill category. Also their DBA apparently doesn't have a dissertation component which makes that program questionable, IMHO.

 

Hi Bill

I don't think it is quite that clear. Until recently CCU students were reporting graduate level classes consisted of reading 1 textbook and answer multiply choice questions. This sounds very similiar to K-W. I think it is very likely they are cleaning up these kind of issues. I believe they will eventually get DETC accreditation. I am not sure if that will take 6 months, 6 years, or longer.

 

With all the press about diploma mills lately, the perception in the minds of many people is: "Distance Learning= Diploma Mill"

 

Yes. No doubt that this is true. Of course, it's been true for a long time because these mills have been around for a long time (under one name or another). This is a big reason why many on this forum work so hard to keep abreast of the DL world. If the neighborhood can be cleaned up then it allows legitimate DL programs to be viewed in the proper light. We all benefit from their efforts.
Jack

 

I agree with Bill on CCU. I have had no contact with KW, tanks gods, but CCU *appeared* far more structured and responsible than the fairly quickly evident malarkey being peddled by PWU.

However, I do question some of the multipurpose supervision they were doing when they had doctoral programs, in that they were offering supervision by people who could be presumed to know little or nothing about the proposed topic.

Yes, Cal Coast has waited until the public relations barn is on fire. (Their fault.) Yes, some of those who promote it sound exactly like raging millists. (NOT CCU's fault.) No, I don't put it as low as the other two and would be happier calling it substandard instead of "mill." No, I would not recommend it now; at this point they offer nothing that other better schools do not offer at the same or better prices.

 

I would never consider labelling CCU as a diploma mill. Although its 3 decade history is certainly far from spotless, CCU has shown itself to be superior than the schools who have found it necessary to flee California in order to continue operation. CCU has been in its Santa Ana location for many years and, as has been shown repeatedly on this forum, has many successful alumni.

Now, having said that, would I recommend CCU? I highly doubt it, since there are so many RA and NA options that were not available in the 70s and 80s, when California Western/California Coast was one of the only legal alternatives to a full residency/classroom based degree. A degree mill would not even attempt to seek DETC accreditation (how many mills have?), but CCU is making an honest attempt to do so. Although doctoral degrees have been a bread-and-butter item for CCU, accreditation will help to assure that it has a viable future and will help to address the "mill" stigma.

Tony Pina
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino