Diploma Mill distinctives

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by DesElms, Aug 5, 2004.

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  1. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    This subject has been attempted in other threads, but the conversation always seems to go off in other directions and the original intent of the thread sometimes gets lost. (Not a complaint, so much... just an observation. What can I say.)

    So, to the degree that it is even possible with the members of this august body who (including myself) sometimes steer these threads away from their original purposes with all the thoughtful and useful but nevertheless off-topic side chatter, I ask this group to answer the following:

    Aside from the obvious lack of accreditation by a CHEA-approved agency, what, precisely, are the specific features or distinctives of diploma mills which differentiate them, in objectively observable and easily provable and/or demonstrable ways, from legitimate institutions of higher learning?

    Note that accreditation (or lack thereof) by a USDOE- and/or CHEA-approved agency is not really in play, here. The question seeks to find diploma mill distinctives above and beyond their obvious lack of USDOE/CHEA-approved accreditation.

    And, please, if possible, let's just try to stick with answering the question. I'm not saying that we shouldn't make any side comments at all, but let's see if we can keep this thread as sharp (not to be confused, necessarily, with brief) and to-the-point as possible.

    By the last sentence in my previous paragraph, I'm not making a thinly-veiled complaint or smart-assed remark about anyone in these forums. Rather, I'm simply eagerly and intently seeking really thoughtful and learned commentary that is specific and on-point and doesn't veer too far off-course; and which I am then going to try to condense down into a really good, succinct, final list (which I'll post here, for everyone's benefit, of course) which may (or may not... we'll see) subsequently get used in some legislation that I've been approached to consider writing at some point later on down the road.

    The undeniable fact of the matter is that I just can't think of a better group of more knowledgeable folks from which to solicit such commentary as those who hang around here. So that's what I'm doing. Thanks, in advance, for your help.

    To respond to the exact same sort of question for legitimate (non-diploma mill) institutions of higher learning, please see the companion "Legitimate Institution distinctives" thread that I have also started here. If you have not already done so, please respond to that thread, too, if you can.

    Please try, also, to respond to my "Hallmarks of non-U.S. degree legitimacy" thread.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2004
  2. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

  3. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Oh, that's a quite excellent thread, isn't it?

    Thanks Mike!

    Anything else, anyone? Remember to think in terms of statutory language. I'm looking for a definition that, after refinement, could end-up as legalese (which I'm not asking anyone here to write, mind you) in an Oregon-like statute. There are two approaches. One approach would attempt to define a "diploma mill" so that the statutue could effectively outlaw them. The other approach (and the better one, in my opinion) is to not even try to define a diploma mill. Instead, define legitimate institutions so effectively and thoroughly that you can just say "these are legal, all others are not" and, by definition, diploma mills would just sort of naturally fall into the category of "all others."

    Let's assume, for a moment, that I'm going to go the define-a-mill route, how would we do it? What are a mill's distinctives?
     
  4. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    Unfortunately, IMO, that is going to be very difficult without resorting to recognized accreditation. If you exclude accreditation from the mix, it becomes difficult to separate the Western Governors, Thomas Edison’s, Charter oaks, and Excelsior’s from the KWU's, PWU's, and SRU's (and yes I class the last three as mills).

    And how do you separate the Hamilton's from the Bob Jones's?

    There are some strong indicators of if a school is a mill or not, but it does take a lot of due diligence and research to identify them. When I began my search for a doctoral program in engineering four years ago I considered both Cal Coast, SCUPS, and KWU. To the uninformed they all look like good programs well suited to what I wanted. I knew about accreditation, but I did not realize that these schools were not.

    Luckily I found Bears' Guide (a used copy, but then I bought a new one). This opened my eyes and I then found this site.

    It is not an easy task to do what you are proposing, and I am spending why too much time on this when I need to finish my last required class in the next two weeks along with a referred paper due 1 September, bye.
     

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