Transcipts for the "for-profit" colleges

Hello everyone.

My question is a 2 part question.

1.) Say a student is attending a "for-profit" college and recieves a Bachelor's degree. (For example, I'll use U of Phoenix) My question: If the school should go out of business how is that degree, from a school that doesn't exist anymore, looked upon in corporate america ?

2.) Continuing from question #1, if that school does go out of business and a student wants to pursue a Master's degree, where on earth would they go to get a copy of their Transcripts ?

P.S. My questions refer to colleges that are Regionally Accredited

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks guys......Fred

 

I read an article once in an educational journal on this very topic. There is a certain number of colleges in the USA that literally go out of business and close up shop every year. The smaller, more rural, liberal arts or religious schools seem particularly prone to this. As far as I know, as long as the school was in good standing when you graduated, it is largely irrelevant if it later closes, in terms of acceptance in the business world.

As to student records, very often another college in the same general locale will agree to be the custodian of records, or in some cases, a state educational agency will take the records or keep track of who has the records. So although it may take a bit of searching, one can eventually find the records custodian and obtain transcripts.

 

At any given moment, whenever a potential employer's HR dept is looking at one's degree, if he/she cannot easily find the college listed among existing, accredited institutions, you'll have some explaining to do (that is, if they even check).

It gets even weirder and more difficult for the applicant when one has an accredited degree from an institution that still exists, but has, since said applicant got the accredited degree there, lost its accreditation. When the HR person looks-up the college where you say you got your accredited degree, he/she will see that it's now unaccredited, and there you'll stand saying, "B... bu... but it was accredited back when I got my degree there! Really! I sweartogod!" And you'd be right. If a degree is accredited at the time you graduate with it, it's still accredited even if the college where you got it later loses its accreditation.

And vice versa: If it wasn't accredited when you got it, but has become accredited since, you can't say yours was accredited (although if you do you're likely to get away with it... but I, personally, wouldn't dare try).

If an accredited school goes out of business, your accredited degree obtained there when its door were still open is just as valid as if you got it from any other accredited institution. Of course, the HR person viewing your degree, upon learning that your institution is now out of business, may think to himself/herself that the school must not have been very good if it couldn't even manage to stay in business. But that's a different kind of qualitative judgement and has nothing to do with the fact that out of business or not, your accredited degree from there is still valid.

Some states require that when a college goes belly up or closes for whatever other reason, its transcript records must be sent to a certain state office which specializes in sending transcripts and verifying degrees from closed schools. Other states require that a trustee of some kind be appointed and that said trustee's duty shall be to keep transcripts and other records and verify degrees, etc. Yet a third group of states simply requires the closing institution to transfer the records to a nearby accredited school which, in the future, will handle the tasks of sending-out transcrtips and/or verifying degrees. It all just depends. But few schools close without figuring out some way to handle it, whether they're required to do so by their state, or whether they're just making sure it gets done 'cause it's the right and honorable thing to do before finally closing the doors.

I wouldn't worry too much about how your transcripts can be obtained or whether your degree can be verified. That's usually something that ends-up getting taken care off somehow.

Schools close all the time -- public and private. There are tons of people walking around with degrees from now-closed schools who are still able to manage. It sucks, of course, but it can still be worked out somehow.

 

The school's tax-exempt status is irrelevant. (All schools are "for profit"; it's a matter of what they do with their excess revenues.)

School records can be left with another accredited school, a state agency, or even the accrediting agency. As noted above, it is not an uncommon thing. And as I've said, a school's tax status doesn't affect this issue.

 

The NCA keeps lists, both of formerly accredited schools and of defunct accredited schools, which are accessible on the NCA website. Other accreditors may do likewise.

 

Greetings to all,

I knew of a women who wanted to further her education, but the school she once attended many years before no longer existed.
However, she had several copies of her transcript in her personel files at home and thus was able to avoid the hassle of looking up her past transcripts in some old archive for transcripts that may have been destroyed and no longer exsiting.

So my question would be this, would it not be wise to get several copies of your transcripts upon leaving a school and leaving them in the official sealed envelopes of that school and put them in a safe place for possible future use, thus avoiding any head aches later?

Food for thought!

Rich Hartel

 

In Florida, transcripts for closed schools go to the regulating Commission for Independent Education.
Unfortunately, many schools close illegally, meaning they don't provide the Commission with student records, give proper notice, or finish training their current students. In such cases, the suggestion about keeping your own transcripts is a good idea, although they would be considered unofficial transcripts. It's still better than nothing.

 

Thanks guys for all the information.....much appreciated.

Rich Hartel, that is a very good idea that I had never thought of.

Most transcripts are a small fee, and yes they would reduced a larger headache later one.

 

To Khan, greetings,

I just wanted to say, that from what I have been told, that as long as the seal of the official school envelope in which your transcripts are mailed to you in is not broken, the transcripts are considered "official"!

However, I guess that would be up to the school your trying to transfer to.

Rich Hartel

 

I think to avoid this problem, students should choose their schools very carefully. If the school opened up last week, I'd probably mark them off my list.

 

One of my former work acquaintence had an affadavit that said he received a BS from the defunct West Coast University. Apparently this was accepted by both employers and the school he applied to for an Masters.

 

Sometimes lawyers really can help.

The reason receiving universities insist that transcripts come from directly from another university and not the student is that the receiving university trusts the sending university to send it an undoctored, truly accurate, transcript. If the student, on the other hand, provides the transcript, the receiving school can't know if it's undoctored and truly accurate. Simple as that.

Enter a lawyer. Yes, I realize Shakespeare advocated that first they should all be killed... but please just bear with me for a minute...

If you believe that your school might someday fold and leave you in the lurch, unable to get official transcripts sent wherever you need them (or to verify your degree to others) because they did not close legally and/or did not see to it that your records were placed into either the state's hands or those of a neighboring and reputable institution appointed to administer said records, then simply have said institution, before it closes and while it still has its reputation, send an "official" transcript to an attorney of your choosing.

Direct said attorney not to let you (or anyone not a sworn officer of the Court) get your(his/her) grubby hands on it, for any reason, no matter what; that he/she must handle it in a "chain of custody" mode so that he/she can make sworn declarations about his/her having been the only person to handle it after receiving it from the institution if called-upon to do so in the future.

Direct that he/she put the original transcript in safekeeping -- in a manner very similar to escrow... perhaps that's even what you and he/she would call it: Escrow (though, technically, that's not exactly what it would be).

Direct him/her to only send a high-quality color copy of same to whomever you direct him/her to do so, along with his/her sworn affidavit stating:

A) that as an officer of the court, the transcript had come to him/her directly from the now-closed college and is, indeed, official; and,

B) that it has ever since been kept in safekeeping in his/er law office safe (or bank safe-deposit box) in a manner similar to escrow; and,

C) that, at your request, he/she has made a high-quality color copy thereof and has forwarded it on to whomever you told him/her to forward it on to; and,

D) that neither said copy nor the original from which it was made have ever been in your hands, the hands of anyone acting on your behalf or in your interests (other than the attorney, of course), and that, in fact, it has never been in the hands of anyone other than the affiant in his/her official capacity as an officer of the Court and a sworn member in good standing of the Bar; and,

E) that it is a faithful, accurate and undoctored facsimile of the original with every bit of its original content appearing precisely as originally sent; and,

F) that, finally, in light of the original school's closure since said transcript was originally sent to said attorney, therefore, it should be considered "official" for all purposes that any transcript would need to be "official" and is the only reasonable means by which same may now be conveyed.

Or something like that. (Your lawyer would know how better to word it for your specific circumstances.)

Of course it will cost you -- though probably not dearly. The attorney may charge a yearly fee to hold and maintain the document securely and in a manner similar to escrow (if not escrow itself) for however many years you ask him/her to do so. Said fee might be anything from the cost of a bank safe deposit box marked-up a few percentage points to cover the attorney's monthly or yearly task of renewing/maintaining it, plus the equivalent of an hour's worth of his her time for making him/her fiddle around with it every year; to anything more than that but is still reasonable, based on what you're asking of him/her.

And he/she will charge you a fee -- probably, believe it or not, a fairly small one equal to maybe an hour's worth of his/her time -- whenever you ask him/her to copy it and send it, along with his/her aforementioned sworn affidavit, to whomever you direct.

Costs notwithstanding, I believe this perhaps unorthodox methodolgy will, nevertheless, just about guarantee that the receiving school will have no trouble accepting the transcript as "official" and relying upon it accordingly. If they refuse, I suspect you'd have a fairly easy time getting a judge in their jurisdiction to order them to re-think the matter. Affidavits of attorneys in good standing with their respective state Bars which are made in escrow or escrow-like matters are considered more or less golden, pretty much everywhere. Few courts would dare strike them down without some pretty darned good reasons; and most would fairly direct all parties involved to treat the transcript as original, under the circumstances.

That's certainly how I'd make the problem go away, once and for all...

...but that's just me.

 

Being that I have never taken a matter to an attorney that he or she did not make a whole lot worse before he or she made it better, I believe there is a simpler and less expensive solution to the problem. Many schools will, upon request, provide a student with copies of his or her transcript in unaddressed, sealed (with the appropriate seals or stamps across the seams or flaps), official envelopes. All the student has to do is address the envelope and mail it to the entity requiring it.