Google Search on CCU

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Bill Huffman, Jul 8, 2004.

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  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    On this other thread http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14574&pagenumber=2
    we somehow got into what a Bill Dayson Google Search (BDGS) profile for California Coast University (CCU) would show. The BDGS that I did on CCU did not leave me with very positive subjective evaluation. I did a similar search on University of Flordia North. Then I thought

    So I did a similar search on Excelsior College, COSC, and TESC. First off I've been more convinced than ever that Bill Dayson should get accolades for BDGS. I believe that it really can be used to get a subjective feel for the academic reputation of a school. The big three provide what I'd consider to be a very positive feel. On the other hand, CCU had a number of very negative links and the non-negative links didn't give me as good of an academic feel as for the big three.

    What does it really mean? I think it means that CCU's reputation is not as good as the big three. I really don't think that it is a very surprising conclusion but I was excited that BDGS actually seemed to work! I think that I'll do some more of BDGS studies, this time on some DETC institutions.
     
  2. cehi

    cehi New Member

    Bill Huffman,

    First, I am not crazy about CCU. I have challenged myself to understand CCU a lot more based on my review of the many discussions on this board. I think I am begining to understand what your intents are. I do understand the personal conclusions that you have made about CCU that you are trying to drive home. I have used the same source (Google) as yours to search for information on CCU. Some very interesting data have been exposed. There are numerous scholarly work that have been done by CCU doctoral graduates that, in my view, have contributed to the academic environment, to use your words. I know the question could be ...how much work?......it depends on how you look at it.

    You are correct. There are some good and bad information about CCU based on my google test as well. I do feel comfortable with the good information that I have obtained about CCU. I was surprised to see a CCU doctoral graduate who is a full professor, and a Fulbright Scholar. As a matter of fact, this person was the first Fulbright Scholar for his school. Some of the good information from my google search attested the followings (similar to my previous posting yesterday):

    1.Gerald Ramey: Professor; Fulbright Scholar
    http://www.lcsc.edu/business/Staff/GerryR.htm
    http://www.lcsc.edu/collegeinfo/nr/nr-Ramey01.htm


    2.Robert J. Meyers: Outstanding Scholar; Numerous Publications & Awards
    http://casaa.unm.edu/staff/bmeyers.html
    http://www.hazelden.org/servlet/hazelden/cms/ptt/hazl_7030_shade.html?sf=t&sh=t&page_id=25834
    http://www.fetchbook.ca/search_Robert_J_Meyers/searchBy_Author.html (3 published books)
    http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:3mRBGqcM78cJ:casaa.unm.edu/download/bmeyerscv.pdf+robert+j+meyers&hl=en (Vitae)


    3.Carol Vollmer Pope
    http://www.bus.wisc.edu/ciber/events/2003/Innovations%20Workshop.pdf
    http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/Business/alumni/outlook/fall2001/pope.html


    4.Frank G. Bingham, Jr: The second link showed his scholarly publication
    http://www.bryant.edu/facultyprofile/bingham_frank.htm
    http://business.clemson.edu/JMTP/Webpage/Vol%2010/Volume%2010%20No%203.htm#75


    5.Deanna Sutton---This site show the many scholarly articles that she has co-authored
    http://www.doctorfungus.org/aboutdrf/Deanna_Sutton.htm
    http://biologybooks.net/search_Deanna_A._Sutton/searchBy_Author.html (published book)


    6.Paula Hogart; Bio and Publication
    http://www.conted.utulsa.edu/staff/paula.asp
    http://www.asc41.com/www/2000/abscp006.htm


    7.Stephen J. Hoogerbrugge; Contributor to a published book
    http://www.argosyu.edu/lcontent/?location=4&subpg=416
    http://www.baywood.com/books/tableofcontents.asp?id=0-89503-213-9


    8.Scott P. Anstadt: Some publications
    http://www.eni.edu/welfare.faculty.anstadt.html
    http://www.is1.org/Rev.Scott/toc.html Published book
    http://www.aliens.com/personal/THERAPY/therapr.htm (Vitae)


    9.J.M Evosevich: Published books
    http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/medicinenet/prof_detail.php?profid=6570&idx=0&sid=1088136489_2381
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/102-1891989-7447351?tag=starshopcom-tools-20%20&keyword=J%20M%20Evosevich%20Gay%20and%20Lesbian%20Psychotherapy%20Treatment%20Planner&mode=books (Published book)


    10. Federico Grosso: Adjunt Professor; Medical Practioner; Practicing Counselor
    http://www.sbgi.edu/html/adjfaculty.html
    http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2004/6/emw133947.htm


    As Bill Dayson have indicated, these information that we seek and gather only gives us a feel about the institution in question so that we can make our own conclusions. Based on the google outcome, I have a positive feeling about CCU. I have learnt a lot about the school from the multiple discussions on this board.

    I have enjoyed reading your contributions in either way that I have perceived them. Thank you for your insights. For me, I think I have challenged myself enough on issues arising with CCU. Thank you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2004
  3. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I think that the kind of material you are posting is valuable. It does help us understand what CCU is doing.

    It's hard for me to comment on business professors because I don't really understand how business academia works. Business is a practitioner's subject at least as much as it's a scholarly subject.

    But I notice that this gentleman earned his RA MBA in 1980 and was employed by Lewis and Clark State in the same year, where he has remained ever since. He only earned his CCU Ph.D. subsequently, in 1989. So it was the MBA that got him hired. Whether or not his CCU work influenced his Fulbright grant, I can't say.

    This one interests me. As a former biology major, I feel more comfortable commenting on it.

    Dr. Sutton's education is listed as follows:

    1964 - BS, Medical Technology. University of Oregon Health Science Center, Portland
    1999 - MS, Health Care Management. California Coast University, Santa Ana
    2001 - Ph.D., Management. California Coast University, Santa Ana


    Notice the 35 year gap between her bachelors degree and the graduate degrees. I'd be willing to bet that her career as a medical technologist of considerable standing was well underway long before CCU ever entered the picture.

    Her publications all concern clinical mycology. So I did a Google search for the exact phrase "California Coast University" and the word "mycology". It produced 8 hits, none of which suggested any mycological work taking place at Cal Coast.

    So I did the same search with San Francisco State. I got more than 400 hits including the Mycological Society of America, foreign research collaborations, a now retired professor who was the world's leading authority on Boletes, the HD Thiers Herbarium which houses what's said to be the largest collection of fungi in the western United States, the California Academy of Sciences, journal editorial board positions and so on.

    In 'Ghostbusters', the company secretary is hitting on Harold Ramis... "What to you do for fun?" "I collect spores, molds and fungus". "Oh... Well, I play racquet-ball..."

    I think that the beginnings of a pattern may be emerging with CCU. People achieve some kind of success that's unrelated to the school. But there's a sense that it isn't really complete somehow, unless it's accompanied by a doctorate. (I suspect that the academic subculture promotes that.) So people earn a degree that they don't really need so that they will have a tail like the other foxes.

    At least in these biological cases, it's not hard to argue that a CCU doctorate has little to do with success in microarray or clinical mycology labs.
     
  4. cehi

    cehi New Member

    I promised myself that I am done with CCU stuff. Your points are well taken. But....I have to make one and final comment, thus:

    BillDayson: "I think that the beginnings of a pattern may be emerging with CCU. People achieve some kind of success that's unrelated to the school. "


    Cehi: This same pattern could emerge or happen to anybody from any school, I believe.


    My final comment is that your google test is sure a very good way of getting information from the internet. I think the value of the attained information is dependent on the deductions that we make from the information. Thank you so much for your usual objective contributions. I have enjoyed them all. Thank you, again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2004
  5. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    This roster includes an accomplished fellow who is affiliated with UCLA, one Dr. Madni, who holds a CCU doctorate with significant contributions to the greater academic and research community:

    http://www.eeweb.ee.ucla.edu/alumniboard/boardmemberlist.php

    Another roster includes a CCU doctorate, one Robert Mulvihill who seems to have made a few contributions to the aerospace industry.

    http://www.riskworld.com/Profsoci/sra/newsltrs/3rdqu95/ps5ae308.htm

    There are many more like these guys. On Bill Dayson's point, I think there is much truth to the observation that many who have pursued a doctorate from CCU have an accomplished professional career already, probably have sufficient RA credentials and probably don't need the degree but continued their learning and research for whatever reason. Some folks are just motivated to coninue their education and would have been successful regardless of the credential.

    I think a Googler needs to specify a particular discipline if one seeks accomplishments. A search on "California Coast University" tends to bring up advertisements which include the school as part of a list and a number of somewhat negatively construed wire press releases as a result of the recent Collins Senate Committe hearings. A more comprehensive search includes a degree (PhD) AND engineering, business, psychology, health AND research OR faculty. This will identify many with CCU credentials who are actively involved in industry and academia.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2004
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    We hope that DETC accreditation for CCU will do away with all of the negative. For now it is part of CCU's reputation, like it or not. As for the CCU PhD's, I saw evidence in the BDGS of CCU that it hurt reputations of a number of individuals more than it helped. Of course that is all part of the expected territory when it comes to "state approved" schools. We hope that DETC accreditation for CCU will do away with all of the negative.

    All right for those of you that were hoping I'd tired of my tirade against "state approval", I hope that your faith in my stubbornness has been restored. :D
     
  7. jerryclick

    jerryclick New Member

    Also note that a search for "California Coast University" will take one to this site: http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html
    Where they have this to say about it:
    That is about the one in California. Is there another one?
     
  8. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    No. The simple fact that they are unaccredited and won't give money to Oregon means they are illegal, If such laws progress a school would have to pay off 50 states to get the staus that California already grants them
     
  9. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    This is referring to one and the same CCU. It is very bothersome to me that the ODA has placed CCU in the illegal category. It makes me seriously question the accuracy of the seemingly general consensus on this board that CCU is a good unaccredited school. Perhaps the ODA knows something that we don't? That is my concern.

    This is another general problem with schools in the state approved category. Since they have not been thouroughly investigated and approved by an accreditating organization, you can't be sure that they are as good as they appear. CCU tried to get DETC accreditation but the decision was postponed. So CCU has had to drop their doctorate programs which makes them a more credible school in my opinion because that seemed to be the weakest link in their offerings. On the other hand they are still unaccredited and not able to accept anyone into their doctorate program which must be hurting them financially.
     
  10. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    It is a mere $250 dollars for the ODA to do their evaluation. California has granted state approval to the roaring degree mill known as Pacific Western University.

    http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14436

    State approval from California is a joke and a disgrace. It will remain that way as long as PWU is allowed to run their scam under the banner of California State Approved.

    The ODA would be breaking Oregon law to accept degrees from degree mills. I believe that Dennis is just being highly subjective for the self serving reason that he's pursuing a degree from CCU.
     
  11. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Oregon statues say that it's illegal to use degrees not accredited by a US Department of Education recognized accreditor, or approved by the ODA. So every state approved degree, with the exception of those approved by Oregon itself, are illegal in Oregon simply by definition.

    In my opinion, Degreeinfo often engages in circular reasoning on this issue. We discuss the merits of non-accredited programs. Then somebody refers to the ODA website as if it provides additional information. But really all it's telling us is that the school is not accredited, which we already knew. So I'm unmoved when Degreeinfo uses the list as a club to beat schools on the head.

    There are a number of state-approved schools that I like. They would qualify for Mr. Contreras' list. Nevertheless, I continue to like them.

    I don't live in Oregon. I don' need no stinkin' Oregon list.

    That's why I Google schools and pay a lot of attention to the opinions of professional and scholarly organizations, to awards, contracts and grants won, to collaborations, to publications and the like.

    Did any of the current DETC applicants receive accreditation this last meeting? I'm hesitant to use this as another club to beat schools on the head if Australia's Monash University (probably the most presitigious university ever to apply to DETC) didn't get an accreditation decision either.
     
  12. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    No degree granting school, out of about 20 applicants received accreditation. I am wondering what's going on at DETC.
     
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    The ODA is additional information. Bears' Guide is additional information. BDGS (Bill Dayson's Google Search) provides additional information. Dennis Ruhl, Kirkland, et al saying that CCU is super duper is all additional information. The BPPVE telling me that a school is state approved is additional information.

    I think that it is a rather subjective thing deciding how much weight to give to one source of information over another when the different sources disagree. If you believe that the ODA list is worthless, that is fine with me. I think it does have value as a source of information even though I don't live in Oregon. You seem to feel that the BPPVE telling us what is state approved has greater value than I do. I used to have a higher opinion of the value of the BPPVE source of information until I found out more about PWU. I can happily live with differences of opinion even though I've been trained as an engineer. :p

    I agree but it is still one more tidbit of information. However, the main point was that while I believe it made CCU more academically sound, it also made it financially weaker because they are still unaccredited. Once they get accreditation, I hope that they get more students for undergraduate programs that would more than make up for the loss. If it drags on too long then CCU might get into financial difficulties which would make accreditation more difficult. Of course this is all speculation though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2004
  14. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    Let's not get the wrong impression because additional information has been presented. From my perspective, I would say CCU gets an OK, not a "super". They do a decent job but the low cost model requires the student to make the most of the learning process (which I found refreshing at the time...although there are lots of alternatives now). Since they accept students nationwide, I think they should have done more to meet the needs of the other States and their idiosyncratic laws in order to get the widest possible acceptance and to minimize negativity given their untraditional approach. Of course, this becomes moot if they become nationally accredited. I think they need to update their course delivery model and their online marketing and information. When the time comes for them to reinstate their doctorate programs, I think they could do a better job in creating and expanding their academic presence by offering fellowships to sponsor research taking advantage of the demographics of their student body which tends to be senior professionals.
     
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Yes Kirkland, I believe what is both of our main complaints with CCU will be rectified when/if CCU is no longer state approved. It will no longer be in the same legal category as PWU! :)



    disclaimer: PWU is currently in the state approved category but it should be in the closed-down-degree-mill category.
     
  16. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    I had had the impression that judging the academic footprint of a school had at least as much to do with what its professors are publishing as with what its students/graduates are publishing. Are there any traces of publication or research by the professors at CCU?
     
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Not in my viewing but I only looked through the first 100 hits. My suggestion was that someone more interested in CCU should look through the thousands of additional hits.
     
  18. oscar

    oscar New Member

    With regards to CCU, if one has a CCU MBA (assuming that DETC approves CCU for accreditation) and a nonaccredited PH.D from CCU thats State approved (assuming that it may be awhile before PH.D.s are accredited) that the nonaccredited doctorate from CCU will move up on the 'respectability radar screen'?
     
  19. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    That is exactly what I am hoping for and I believe it will happen.

    By the time I receive my CCU DBA (hopefully) there will, in all probability be DETC doctoral graduates. We apparently ignore already existing DETC doctoral graduates.

    There are 249,999,997 people in the US who would not make such fine distinctions. There are 3 people at degreeinfo who actually care about such things.
     
  20. oscar

    oscar New Member

    Thanks Dennis

    I hope your timeline proves to be prophetic for all of us currently in the pipeline. Lets share a little conjecture! Again, no one knows for certain what events will shape the future, but here's how I see it. Hopefully, CCU gets DETC accreditation in January 05. That will be great for MBA candidates who graduate subsequently. Next, CCU (if current DETC proposed policy is implemented) has to wait at least 2 years before applying to DETC for Doctorate Accreditation. Okay, thats 2007. If the process extends 6-12 months from there, you could be looking at 2008 at the earliest. Actually, I hate speculating so far into the future. Life is not so stagnant and predictable, but thats my best guest-estimate.
     

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