KW responds to Collins circus

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Redlyne Racer, May 19, 2004.

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  1. Redlyne Racer

    Redlyne Racer member

  2. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    The single most damning aspect of KW is its complete lack of even a remote hint of quality standards in assessment of life experience. This is THE thing that makes KWU as bogus as a three dollar bill. None of the other things that are responded to matter when placed in the same context as the phony graduate credit for life experience process.

    So, reading their long winded response, the only matter than really matters receives an almost invisible two sentence reply. The rest doesn't matter. It is this inability to defend the life credit assessment process that determines exactly what KW is, and more importantly , what KW is not.
     
  3. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    If the program is so good, how come I can not enroll?

    Hint - I live in California!
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: KW responds to Collins circus

    The problem that goes hand-in-hand with that is that they apparently don't publish the graduation requirements for the KWU degrees anywhere. This is apparently to help mask the fact that their assessment of life experience is bogus. A school catalog that doesn't describe the degree requirements is not a catalog for a school.
     
  5. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    I keep asking for specifics of what was incomplete, distorted, and clearly inaccurate in the hearings, but I am just ignored.

    I would like to see these liars from this hearing exposed.
    :rolleyes:
     
  6. Migara

    Migara member

    Why is it that KWU dont addmit students from California?

    Migara
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Kennedy-Western does not enroll California students due to its agreement with the state not to. Kennedy-Western is located in California, but is not approved as a degree-granting school.

    I find Kennedy-Western's response interesting. If they were really all that interested in quality, why not get approved by the state in which they operate? Why not pursue recognized accreditation? Others have. Southwest tried. Even Century gave it a (failed) go. But not the Uber-mill. Such a thing would undoubtably interfere with the cash flow. (They have a lot more to lose than the others.)

    Spending half a mil on Blackboard does not a university make.
     
  8. Migara

    Migara member

    Thank Rich,

    If KWU is licensed in Wyoming how is it possible to operate from California?

    Interesting is that there admin office?

    Administrative Offices

    Kennedy-Western University
    30301 Agoura Road
    Agoura Hills, CA 91301
    Phone: (818) 707-4300

    Corporate Offices

    Kennedy-Western University
    200 West 17th Street
    Cheyenne, WY 82001-4412
    Phone: (307) 638-6114

    Yet it claims to in Wyoming.....
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You have it backwards. ;) The question is, it is operated from California, so how can it be licensed in Wyoming? Actually, either way points out the absurdity of this situation. Wyoming has no business allowing this sham to go on, and California has a bigger responsibility than just preventing Californians from being taken in.

    Both states are culpable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2004
  10. Migara

    Migara member

    Rich thank you, your point make perfect sense.

    Tell me, why cant either DOE or the Fed Government pass a bill, (law) something to the context of saying "once an college/uni started as unaccredited, it has 3- 4 years to seek and comply with Accreditation with DOE recognized body.


    Wouldnt that clean up the diploma mills and other unaccredited bogus colleges?

    Migara
     
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I don't know that the Federal government has that power under the Constitution. But the states do, and many of them have laws even more strict than you propose.
     
  12. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Why can't states simply limit licensing of unaccredited schools to those resident in mind, management and operations? A school that would want to operate elsewhere could get accredited.
     
  13. Redlyne Racer

    Redlyne Racer member

    Wyoming statutes provide:

    This would seem to make some RA schools illegal in Wyoming. Maybe we should compile a list?
     
  14. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    No. Maybe you should read the statute?
    • 21‑2‑404. Operation without license unlawful; soliciting business in public schools; furnishing list of students; prohibited practices.

      (a) No person shall operate a school as defined in W.S. 21‑2‑401 in Wyoming and no private school shall conduct business in Wyoming without first obtaining a license under this article.
    In other words, 21‑2‑404 applies only to schools licensed under statute 21‑2‑401, which reads as follows:
    • 21 2 401. License required; state board of education to administer and set minimum standards; in-state office required; on site inspections by state department.

      (a) All trade, correspondence, distance education, technical, vocational, business or other private schools, and all degree granting post secondary education institutions not accredited by an accrediting association recognized by the United States department of education, which are located within the state or have their principal place of business out of state but doing business in the state, shall be licensed under this article before operating or doing business in this state.

      (b) Any degree granting post secondary education institution not accredited by an accrediting association recognized by the United States department of education, shall prior to operating or doing business in this state, maintain physical facilities as office space which is located in the state either through property owned by the institution or through office space which is subject to a current lease at the time of application. The term of any lease shall be for a minimum of one (1) year from its inception and lease renewal shall be for periods of not less than one (1) year. In addition to W.S. 21 2 402(b)(vi), the institution shall provide the state department a copy of each new lease or lease renewal executed while holding a license under this article. The designated office space shall be staffed on a full-time basis by an employee of the institution. In addition, the institution shall provide the state department with evidence that substantive academic and student service-related activity is conducted at this designated location.
    The statute does not apply to institutions “accredited by an accrediting association recognized by the United States department of education.” In other words, The State of Wyoming trusts regionally accredited (and nationally accredited as well) to conduct these educational practices legitimately, responsibly, ethically and honestly, but it does not trust that the institutions it licenses (perhaps because it only a license and not approval?) to do the same.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2004
  15. Redlyne Racer

    Redlyne Racer member

    You are right Gus, the correct code section is
    21‑2‑404 (c), which except for numbering is nearly identical to the former section I quoted. I'm sure you meant to point that out.

    The fact remains that there are RA schools whose practices would otherwise be illegal in Wyoming. The point being (since apparently it was lost on you) K-W apparently operates at a higher standard. That seems more significant in evaluating a school's quality than knowing the school's administrators prefer to have offices someplace where they don't have to shovel snow.
     
  16. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    (v) A copy of the enrollment agreement, contract
    16 or other document which acknowledges the enrollment of each

    17 student which is executed by each student at the time of

    18 enrollment or paying tuition fees other than applications

    19 fees. The agreement, contract or other document shall be

    20 made available at the time of the on-site inspection

    21 required under W.S. 21-2-401(b) and shall contain the

    22 following statement:

    23

    24 "I understand that (name of institution) is

    25 licensed by the Wyoming department of education in

    Page 4

    1 accordance with W.S. 21-2-401 through 21-2-407 and that

    2 neither the department of education nor the Wyoming state

    3 board of education has accredited or endorsed any course of

    4 study being offered by (name of institution)."


    From the above the state department of education nor the Wyoming state board of education has accredited or endorsed any course of study being offered by KWU.
     
  17. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    In other words, it would be illegal, except that it's legal. :rolleyes:

    You can't be serious?? :confused:

    What is your connection/affiliation with K-W?
     
  18. David Boyd

    David Boyd New Member

    From the KW response:

    "The bill includes language that would make it difficult, if not impossible, for degree mills to be licensed in the state of Wyoming. This included language such as requiring the school to post a $100,000 bond, requiring the school to have a physical presence and employees in the state, requiring the school to have a high percentage of faculty with Master’s and Ph.D.’s and requiring audited financial statements as well as several other critical points."

    It seems to me it would be very easy for a diploma mill to comply with all these rules.

    1. The bond is easy. Just deposit $100,000 - almost any insurance company would issue the bond.

    2. What's difficult about renting an office in Wyoming?

    3. Faculty can be easily purchased.

    4. CPA's audit financial statements of any organization willing to pay.
     
  19. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    In actual fact the bond would probably cost less than $100k unless they KWU had previous defaults. Most performance bonds I have posted (in engineering & construction) cost under 10% of the face value or in this case about $1,000, but then this is basic a term insurance policy, so that would cover some time period often 3 to 4 years, or about $250/year.
     
  20. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    No, I didn’t mean to “point that out.” It wasn’t my intention to nitpick.

    What do you mean by otherwise? Do you mean that if the law explicitly didn’t exclude accredited institutions, then, it might be illegal (it would be illegal if it wasn't legal)? If so, what’s your point?

    Higher standard than what? Are you saying that Kennedy-Western University (an entity that for years I have had no compunction about publicly asserting is a degree mill) adheres to higher educational standards than regionally or nationally accredited schools? Evidence such as that presented at recent U.S. Senate commission hearings prove you wrong. The truth is that the State of Wyoming does not trust the school it licenses to engage in educational practices that many legitimate schools around the world have engaged in for centuries. Why do you think that is? Could the fact that it is easier and less cumbersome (from a regulatory standpoint) to open up a university in Wyoming than to open up a barbershop?

    Huh? So you think that because K-W, by law, is prohibited from engaging in educational practices that legitimate schools are allowed to engage in is some kind of quality assurance of its educational processes?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2004

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