Pacific Western University

DrJim · May 19, 2004

I was somewhat distressed to learn recently that Pacific Western University has fallen into disfavor. It would seem that Hawaii is seeking to shut it down, while the state of Oregon is seeking to have all PWU degrees declared to be fraudulent. I completed a doctoral program in psychology from PWU in the mid-1980s and found it to be a most rewarding experience. My work with PWU not only broadened my understanding of behavior and the central nervous system as it related to my professional activities, but enhanced my analytical and critical thinking skills, as well.
I’d completed undergraduate and graduate level degrees in religion, and had graduated from hypnosis school. In addition to which I’d done a substantial amount of self-study (21 years’ worth) in that field and, at age 50, had acquired a number of life-learning experiences that were relevant to that discipline. Therefore, it didn’t make sense for me to spend the additional time and money necessary to be exposed within a classroom environment to information which I’d already learned. Still, PWU required that I complete a substantial amount of course work that would have taken several years had I no previous knowledge of the subjects, write a qualifying exercise, and then a dissertation. My choice of PWU was due, in large part, to Dr. Bear’s giving the university a highly favorable evaluation in his book, "Bear’s Guide to Non-Traditional College Degrees," which was his most recent at that time. Dr. Bear devoted over half-a-page of his book to PWU and concluded by writing, “Comment: Pacific Western’s catalogue has a long and impressive list of major corporations, government agencies and traditional universities where employees or staff are alumni or students of P.W.U. Pacific Western is doing a good job, at reasonable prices (in the vicinity of $2,000 for most programs).”
At the time of my association with PWU, its operation was supervised by the California Superintendent of Public Instruction who authorized the university to confer Bachelor’s, Master’s, and Doctoral level degrees. This was the law of the land at that time, and it worked well. Therefore, any subsequent condemnation of PWU as it pertains to prior graduates would be after the fact, and, as such, should be legally moot. Additionally, almost all of PWU’s academic staff was comprised of traditional, accredited university doctoral degree holders. I doubt that they would have jeopardized their professional and academic reputations through such an association had PWU been a less-than-credible institution. Furthermore, PWU “farmed out” some of their students to doctoral level professors who were on faculties of nearby traditional, accredited colleges and universities, in part to further ensure that the same academic standards that were required of traditional university students were also applied to those of PWU. I should also mention that several years ago a friend who was on faculty at Vanderbilt University’s Graduate School of Nursing gave me a book that had been written by the late Dr. Betty Newman, and was being used as a text in her course. Dr. Newman had been a fully tenured professor at the University of California at Los Angeles whose doctorate was also from PWU.
It would seem that much of the criticism leveled at PWU has to do with its being an unaccredited institution. Accreditation is a voluntary process. Concerning that subject Dr. Bear wrote the following: “A few years ago, the Carnegie Commission on Higher Education conducted research on the relationship between accreditation and non-traditional approaches. Their report, written by Alexander Mood, confirmed that a serious disadvantage of accreditation is ‘in the suppression of innovation.’” The report continued to read, “…As we look toward the future, it appears likely that accrediting organizations will lose their usefulness and slowly disappear.”
If PWU has, in fact, deteriorated into being little more than a degree mill, I am certainly disappointed. However, that should not reflect negatively upon all PWU degree holders, as would seem to be the intentions of the states of Hawaii and Oregon. Rather, a determination should be made to ascertain at what point in its academic conduct such deterioration began, and recognize and honor all PWU degrees legally conferred prior to that time. We have to consider, too, that those who are responsible for making such determinations may not be sufficiently knowledgeable with reference to the purpose and functions of non-traditional colleges and universities to be completely thorough and objective. They may be further influenced by the accreditation organizations that exist, in part, to preserve their own existence.

Signature: Aeronca

Rich Douglas · May 19, 2004

Originally posted by DrJim
I was somewhat distressed to learn recently that Pacific Western University has fallen into disfavor.

While this is an imprecise concept, there really is no reason to think Pacific Western was ever "in favor."

Pacific Western for years operated under California's notoriously lax "Authorized" category, receiving almost no oversight by the state. Never in its history did it have even one program "Approved" under that system. When California eliminated the "Authorized" category, it required all unaccredited schools (except ones with religious exemptions) to be institutionally approved. This chased many degree mills out of the state. (A couple of schools, like Kennedy-Western, never actually left.) Some schools, however, were able to meet the new requirement. (Note that the new institutional approval is no where near as robust as the old programmatic approval.) A few schools were approved to offer a few degree programs in California, but had to "move" the rest of their operations elsewhere. Pacific Western was one of these, offering business degrees from its California-Approved operation while offering all of its other degrees through its license in Hawaii. (Although notoriously lax, Hawaii has lately rigorously enforced the laws it has, making it more effective against degree mills than other states with more strict laws that they don't enforce, like California.)

The irony--or tragedy--in all of this is that Pacific Western continues to operate ALL of its programs from California. That state doesn't seem to care that schools operate within its boundries without its approval.

My choice of PWU was due, in large part, to Dr. Bear’s giving the university a highly favorable evaluation in his book, "Bear’s Guide to Non-Traditional College Degrees," which was his most recent at that time. Dr. Bear devoted over half-a-page of his book to PWU and concluded by writing, “Comment: Pacific Western’s catalogue has a long and impressive list of major corporations, government agencies and traditional universities where employees or staff are alumni or students of P.W.U. Pacific Western is doing a good job, at reasonable prices (in the vicinity of $2,000 for most programs).”

That quote has to be taken in the context of its time, the early 1980's. PWU's behavior since 1989 tells a different tale.

There was a time when Bear was a strong advocate of nontraditional schools, almost all of which were unaccredited. It wasn't that he ignored the importance of accreditation. Rather, those schools were the only alternatives available for people who could not take the time out of their lives to attend traditional universities full-time. That isn't the case any more.

At the time of my association with PWU, its operation was supervised by the California Superintendent of Public Instruction who authorized the university to confer Bachelor’s, Master’s, and Doctoral level degrees. This was the law of the land at that time, and it worked well. Therefore, any subsequent condemnation of PWU as it pertains to prior graduates would be after the fact, and, as such, should be legally moot.

"Condemnation" is a pretty tough word, but your statement about California Authorization overstates its value. Even the state acknowledged that Authorization didn't imply the state approved the school. Quite the opposite, since the state also ran an Approval process. Again, PWU never got any of its programs Approved. (But there were short- and non-resident doctoral programs Approved back then, just not PWU's.)

Additionally, almost all of PWU’s academic staff was comprised of traditional, accredited university doctoral degree holders. I doubt that they would have jeopardized their professional and academic reputations through such an association had PWU been a less-than-credible institution.

Maybe. But we've seen just the opposite at many schools labeled "degree mills." The Chronicle of Higher Education did a very damaging article on Kennedy-Western, which employs a great number of part-time "instructors" working at other, fully accredited schools.

Furthermore, PWU “farmed out” some of their students to doctoral level professors who were on faculties of nearby traditional, accredited colleges and universities, in part to further ensure that the same academic standards that were required of traditional university students were also applied to those of PWU. I should also mention that several years ago a friend who was on faculty at Vanderbilt University’s Graduate School of Nursing gave me a book that had been written by the late Dr. Betty Newman, and was being used as a text in her course. Dr. Newman had been a fully tenured professor at the University of California at Los Angeles whose doctorate was also from PWU.

Having a PWU doctorate may or may not have contributed to her selection for tenure, but I'd sure like to see the evidence supporting it!

It would seem that much of the criticism leveled at PWU has to do with its being an unaccredited institution.

No, it has to do with the type of unaccredited school it is: one that skirts the California Approval process to operate all kinds of degrees. One that is getting blasted by Hawaii. One that is drawing a load of unfavorable publicity.

Accreditation is a voluntary process. Concerning that subject Dr. Bear wrote the following: “A few years ago, the Carnegie Commission on Higher Education conducted research on the relationship between accreditation and non-traditional approaches. Their report, written by Alexander Mood, confirmed that a serious disadvantage of accreditation is ‘in the suppression of innovation.’” The report continued to read, “…As we look toward the future, it appears likely that accrediting organizations will lose their usefulness and slowly disappear.”

Mood wrote that in 1973. I guess he was wrong. Rather than disappearing, they embraced nontraditional higher education programs, schools, and methodologies. That makes them invaluable in dertimining the legitimacy of nontraditional schools, differentiating them from the degree mills.

If PWU has, in fact, deteriorated into being little more than a degree mill, I am certainly disappointed.

There is no reason to think PWU has "deteriorated." It looks exactly the same to me as it did when I first came into contact with it in 1980. That's too bad.

However, that should not reflect negatively upon all PWU degree holders, as would seem to be the intentions of the states of Hawaii and Oregon.

What indicates this intention on the part of Oregon and Hawaii? Oregon, maybe, by making use of the degree illegal. But that's true for any degree from an unaccredited school not specifically approved by Oregon. And Hawaii is just dealing with PWU as it "exists" there. As you've said, you earned your degree from PWU when it was all "in" California.

Rather, a determination should be made to ascertain at what point in its academic conduct such deterioration began, and recognize and honor all PWU degrees legally conferred prior to that time.

Actually, all PWU degrees are legally conferred. It's just illegal to use them in some states.

"Honor" them? In what way? Is there some sort of reciprocity that you're missing out on? Some benefit to having graduated from PWU that is now being held from you?

We have to consider, too, that those who are responsible for making such determinations may not be sufficiently knowledgeable with reference to the purpose and functions of non-traditional colleges and universities to be completely thorough and objective.

Well, Oregon and Hawaii are tasked with doing this, as is California. If your beef is that they're not qualified to do this, your beef is with their respective state legislatures. Hawaii and California, however, have been dealing with unaccredited schools for decades. I suspect they "get it." Oregon's ODA is getting quite a bit of mileage from their list, and the only people that seem to be complaining are people associated with schools on the list.

They may be further influenced by the accreditation organizations that exist, in part, to preserve their own existence.

Actually, the accrediting associations are made up of their member schools. Now, if you think those schools have a sense of self-preservation, you're probably right.

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Interesting that there is very little discussion about the quality of PWU, and how it might have "changed" to cause the current uproar. Or is it instead merely the systems (Oregon, Hawaii, the OPM, the media) finally getting around to it? It is a simpler explanation--absent any evidence of a decline in PWU's operations--to accept that things have always been the same and that other people aren't going to tolerate it anymore. The true test will come if the Uber-mill, Kennedy-Western, goes down. A big "if."

RFValve · May 19, 2004

Originally posted by DrJim

If PWU has, in fact, deteriorated into being little more than a degree mill, I am certainly disappointed. However, that should not reflect negatively upon all PWU degree holders, as would seem to be the intentions of the states of Hawaii and Oregon. Rather, a determination should be made to ascertain at what point in its academic conduct such deterioration began, and recognize and honor all PWU degrees legally conferred prior to that time. We have to consider, too, that those who are responsible for making such determinations may not be sufficiently knowledgeable with reference to the purpose and functions of non-traditional colleges and universities to be completely thorough and objective. They may be further influenced by the accreditation organizations that exist, in part, to preserve their own existence.

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If you read this forum, you will find many degree holders from “less than wonderful” schools that claim to have done substantial work.

Why do you say that this work was substantial? Was it published in recognized journals of Psychology? Substantial compared to other PhD programs from accredited universities?

I also find interesting that PWU granted you a PhD in Psychology when your background is in religion. Although this is possible in accredited universities, this normally requires an extensive number of courses in the area before the PhD program can be started. Did you do a qualifying program before starting your PhD? Or were you granted admission based on your “work” experience?

You also will find that most of the “mill” degree holders claim that graduates from the mill school hold prestigious positions in universities, government or industry. Although this might be true, there is no evidence that the degree mill contributed to get that prestigious position. In the case of faculty members, most of them were hired based on their accredited degrees and the “mill” PhD is only used as dressing but it is not taken into consideration for salary increases or promotion.

Bill Huffman · May 19, 2004

Hi DrJim,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your experiences with PWU. The detailed information presented by Dr. Douglas is right on. I was hoping to give my high level overview of the situation.

It's true that recently PWU has been in the news and the journalist seemed to catch a PWU representative saying things that should never be said at a real school. I became convinced that at that point in time PWU must be a degree mill. This is a good example of one of the big dangers of getting an unaccredited degree. The institution at anytime could start down the degree mill path and once that path is traveled, it's doubtful that they will ever get back to a bona fide school path. The value of an academic degree is based on the reputation of the school and when that reputation goes down the tubes, so goes the school. This is even more important for an unaccredited institution.

John Bear · May 20, 2004

Dr. Jim:
My choice of PWU was due, in large part, to Dr. Bear’s giving the university a highly favorable evaluation in his book, "Bear’s Guide to Non-Traditional College Degrees," which was his most recent at that time.

Dr. John
I can't deny it is what I thought at the time. In retrospect, 1983 was not a great year for me. It was also the year that I wrote, in Computer Wimp: 166 things I wish I had known before I bought my first computer that it is unlikely anyone would need more than one megabyte of memory. My only saving grace there is that Bill Gates wrote, even more recently than that, that he felt 640K would be enough.

Clay · May 20, 2004

Dr.Bear's Books

I chose schools based on Dr.Bear's recommendations and costs. However, I cannot blame him for my decisions and the schools inability to perform as they promised. I have talked to him, by phone several years ago, and have always found him to be honest,humorous, and concerned about education and the institutions providing (or not) same. I have visited several forums, other than this, and he has been called everything except a gentleman. When one takes a chance, even a good chance based on available information, one must understand the outcome is not a certainty. One thing I am certain of is that Dr. Bear did not force me,nor anyone in a similar situation, to attend non-RA schools. If more folks accepted responsibility for their actions, rather than assign responsibility, we would all benefit. Plus, attorneys would have to get jobs. How novel?
De Oppresso Liber

RFValve · May 21, 2004

Re: Dr.Bear's Books

Originally posted by Clay
If more folks accepted responsibility for their actions, rather than assign responsibility, we would all benefit. Plus, attorneys would have to get jobs. How novel?
De Oppresso Liber
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I have seen entire threads not here but in college hints about individuals that blame Dr. Bear or Dr. Douglas about their decisions. I remember a guy who was posting in many distance learning forums that Dr. Douglas was responsible for his decision on attending Touro and now that they are on probation he is responsible for the bad decision. Advice should be taken as advice.

Rich Douglas · May 21, 2004

Re: Re: Dr.Bear's Books

Originally posted by RFValve

I have seen entire threads not here but in college hints about individuals that blame Dr. Bear or Dr. Douglas about their decisions. I remember a guy who was posting in many distance learning forums that Dr. Douglas was responsible for his decision on attending Touro and now that they are on probation he is responsible for the bad decision. Advice should be taken as advice.
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I can't imagine why anyone would "blame" me for enrolling in Touro University International. I've always been quite dubious about the whole setup, except to note that MIGS was taking the exact same tack in its efforts for recognition: operating a school that awards another (recognized) school's degrees. At no time did I engage anyone in any discourse that involved recommending they enroll in Touro, or MIGS for that matter. (No, suggesting someone check out a school is not the same as recommending they enroll. Just as I've never seen John actually "recommend" enrollment in a particular school.)

RFValve · May 21, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Dr.Bear's Books

Originally posted by Rich Douglas

I can't imagine why anyone would "blame" me for enrolling in Touro University International. I've always been quite dubious about the whole setup, except to note that MIGS was taking the exact same tack in its efforts for recognition: operating a school that awards another (recognized) school's degrees. At no time did I engage anyone in any discourse that involved recommending they enroll in Touro, or MIGS for that matter. (No, suggesting someone check out a school is not the same as recommending they enroll. Just as I've never seen John actually "recommend" enrollment in a particular school.)
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Here is the link for your reference, quite an angry guy I would say.

"I followed Mr. Douglas' unconditional advice and was ready to go with Touro and it turned out to be one of my biggest regrets. The tuition was expensive and so I went to get myself a loan. Later, I learned that Touro was placed on probation by the Middle State accreditor. So I dropped the thought of going with Touro, and I ended up paying the loan back in full (which I was allowed to do so without penalty) but incurred a $75 administration fee. $75 may not be a lot to some of you but I would rather spend it on toys for my kids than giving it to the bank for nothing.

I don't want any "diploma mill" programs, nor do I want any recommendation from Union, which according to a post elsewhere, is currently on probation due to some embarassing issues in its doctoral programs. I've also read from elsewhere that you can get get a friend to be your committee member and hey, that's not the kind of post-graduate education I want to pursue.

I've read nothing but good stuff with the moderator of this board and I hope he/she will understand my frustration in this matter. Yes, I'm still quite bitter about the $75 that I've lost, all for nothing. I was banned in the other forum for asking legitimate questions and attacked by those who just don't seem to care about my concerns- education goals. It seems that they don't want to hear of my loss of $75 and now I learned of my stupid mistake in taking advice from a former MIGS shill who worked at fakes like VIU and Greenwich."

http://www.collegehints.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-372.html

DaveHayden · May 21, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: Dr.Bear's Books

Originally posted by RFValve

Here is the link for your reference, quite an angry guy I would say.

"I followed Mr. Douglas' unconditional advice and was ready to go with Touro and it turned out to be one of my biggest regrets. The tuition was expensive and so I went to get myself a loan. Later, I learned that Touro was placed on probation by the Middle State accreditor. So I dropped the thought of going with Touro, and I ended up paying the loan back in full (which I was allowed to do so without penalty) but incurred a $75 administration fee. $75 may not be a lot to some of you but I would rather spend it on toys for my kids than giving it to the bank for nothing.

I don't want any "diploma mill" programs, nor do I want any recommendation from Union, which according to a post elsewhere, is currently on probation due to some embarassing issues in its doctoral programs. I've also read from elsewhere that you can get get a friend to be your committee member and hey, that's not the kind of post-graduate education I want to pursue.

I've read nothing but good stuff with the moderator of this board and I hope he/she will understand my frustration in this matter. Yes, I'm still quite bitter about the $75 that I've lost, all for nothing. I was banned in the other forum for asking legitimate questions and attacked by those who just don't seem to care about my concerns- education goals. It seems that they don't want to hear of my loss of $75 and now I learned of my stupid mistake in taking advice from a former MIGS shill who worked at fakes like VIU and Greenwich."

http://www.collegehints.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-372.html
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The posts you are writing about came from KC Dutton. I am not sure if he is shill or simply misguided, but his posts do not seem to be consistent. First I have never seen Rich unconditionally recommend Touro. He may have pointed out that it is RA and a program that many seem very happy with, but that clearly isn't an unconditional recomendation. Secondly, losing a whopping $75 to find out a doctoral program isn't right for you is nothing. If anything it is a gift. Lastly, he states he was looking for a business program and then later says he is enrolled in a psychology program at NCU. I am glad he found a program he likes, but I can't follow his logic at all.

decimon · May 21, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dr.Bear's Books

Originally posted by DaveHayden

First I have never seen Rich unconditionally recommend Touro.
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Sheesh! What if someone did wholeheartedly endorse a particular school? A person ready for a PhD should recognize an opinion for what it is.

Maybe Douglas, Bear, et al should have some boilerplate disclaimer as their tagline.

Rich Douglas · May 21, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dr.Bear's Books

Originally posted by decimon

Sheesh! What if someone did wholeheartedly endorse a particular school? A person ready for a PhD should recognize an opinion for what it is.

Maybe Douglas, Bear, et al should have some boilerplate disclaimer as their tagline.
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The character in question posts anonymously on another board. He does so with a single agenda, easily discernable for anyone reading his posts. Take him seriously at one's own peril.

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