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  1. #1
    Charles Frye is offline Registered User
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    I own an unaccredited school

    I am the owner of West Haven University in Utah and California. I wanted to give a different perspective than one normally posted here. I will start off by saying I can't wait to see our University listed in John Bear's book on accredited programs. It will be a milestone for me. I used his book many times as a reference enroute to earning my M Ed in Distance Education . The humor is great and I really loved the quotes. When I read the debates posted here between accredited and unaccredited schools I think of one of the quotes Dr. Bear put in his book and it reads something like this: "A log in the woods with John Hopkins on one end and me on the other is enough of a university for me" and I think the person saying it was President Garfield. The other one I like is where the President of Harvard or Yale said a person could get a "first class education with a shelf full of books five feet long." So the point I am making is that it is not where you go to school, it is what you do with your education .

    No school starts out accredited and if every prospective student followed most of your recommendations (or caveats) regarding attending a non accredited school, there would be no new accredited schools. Perhaps you do not know that you have to have classes ongoing in order to become accredited and you have to have students to have classes

    Recently a visitor to our website (www.westhavenuniv.edu) saw where we posted a 100% pass rate on the baby bar. He apparently has been checking out Bar website for years and noticed a discrepancy between what the Bar posted on their website and what we claimed. We were really disappointed to learn that we had been left off the list as we would have been the only school with a 100% pass rate. We were looking forward to the list being published. Granted we only had one test taker, yet that is consistent with small law schools. Actually four students wanted to take the Baby Bar and we decertified them because they failed to turn in assignments in a timely fashion. We do not fudge and pencil in missing data. A student is either qualified or not. There is nothing in between. You can rest assured that they will pay attention to assignment schedules in the next semester. BTW we do not charge students to retake the half year over that they lost.

    Anyway back to the subject. This guy ranted and raved because of the discrepancy between what the Bar reported and what we said. I told him to call a particular individual at the Bar to clear up the misunderstanding and gave him the number. She could easily confirm our claim. Unable to get through to her he asked another person who essentially stated that if there is a discrepancy it is the school’s responsibility to complain, not his. That wasn't good enough for him. He continually demanded to know why there was a discrepancy.

    The aggressiveness in this guy's demand for an explanation for something we could not provide told me there was something seriously wrong with him. I quit playing softball with him. I do not have to take abuse from people like him at all.

    The guy seemed obsessed. He did a search of Amazon.com and found that I am an author. He said the books did not list "Dr." and assumed, wrongly that I do not have an earned doctor degree. Actually the book's cover show I have a J.D. The tenor of his message was that I purchased my degree from a diploma mill.

    It is quite appropriate, as Dr. Bear mentioned previously in a response about our university in another thread, that individuals in educational institutions can use the title "Dr" even if the holder has a Juris Doctor degree. We do that exclusively at our school. We call instructors "Professor" if they have a doctor degree. We usually only use the term Dr. in written communication but occasionally do use the term verbally. We see nothing wrong with this practice. We call a nurse with a doctorate degree “Doctor” so why wouldn’t we do the same for lawyers with a Juris Doctor Degree? These are earned degrees.

    I had asked on many occasions to identify himself but he refused. I told him I would mail him a copy of my transcript if he gave me his address. Again he refused. As a side note, I graduated from one of the best Universities in the United States, and surely one of the oldest. I have four degrees and none were bought. That was not good enough for this guy. He again accused me of "buying" a degree and that he was going to expose me on a website or in book form or through some other means for refusing to give him information.

    Can you imagine being threatened by faceless person for no reason? Would you kneel to that person?

    He at some point wrote that he was doing a "research" project and writing a book on the benefits of attending an accredited vs. unaccredited school. I told him the subject had been beat to death but I did a project on the subject in fully accredited Masters in Education Degree Program. I invited him to sit down with me and I would go over the trials and tribulations of starting a university, especially a distance learning one. But he wasn't interested in that. He was on a mission and truth should never enter into it.

    I appreciate Dr. Bear's kind words about my school. He said we "looked legitimate" and everyone should wait and see how we do on the bar. To this, I can say we did great.

    This guy said that based on my responses to him, it seems like we were a diploma mill. A program leading to licensure as an attorney with mandated requirements for admission by definition is not a diploma mill.

    Also I do want to point out a few things:

    1. We offered law school free to any World War II veteran. We offered a $3,000 (I think it was $3000) to Korean War Veterans in honor of our Dean.

    2. We do not, under any circumstances, grant credit for life experience .

    3. We do not accept enrollment from people overseas.

    4. We require an accredited Bachelor's Degree for enrollment into the law program. (This is new and current). Too many people with Associate Degree or CLEP Test Takers are
    just not prepared for rigors of law school.

    5. Students have to submit work every week. They are briefing more cases than they ever would in a traditional law program.

    6. We discourage people from outside of California from enrolling in our program. We do not even engage in "what if's" as for as seeking licensure outside of California. We tell them up front that the program is for Californians and they have to sign a disclosure to that fact before enrolling.

    7. We require our nursing students to attend class, live online, every week. We have synchronous lectures. Students in our Master's programs must have an accredited Bachelor's Degree. We are commissioning a class starting in May to honor the Band of Angels, the WWII nurses captured in Corrigador.

    8. We only accept credit from an accredited college or university and foreign credit must be evaluated by a reputable evaluation service.

    9. We offer a payment program. They can enroll in law school for about $350 and make monthly payments. When they graduate they still owe about $7,000. Our program is $13,200. That's not too bad of a cost for a full law degree. If we were a diploma mill we would be fools to give credit.

    10. None of our staff or faculty members graduated from our own school and now magically they have doctors or masters or something like that. You have to have an accredited Master’s Degree to teach BS level courses and a Doctor Degree to teach master level courses.

    11. You cannot complete the degree program fast. It is not self-paced.

    As I mentioned earlier, accreditation does not automatically happen. You have to have financial resources, quality faculty, support personnel, support services, etc. It cost several million dollars to get up everything in place to be accredited and it doesn't happen overnight.

    There is a world difference between a diploma program and a school that is not seeking accreditation. And there is even more difference between the schools that are content with being unaccredited and those that want accreditation. We want, and will get, accreditation.

    I have seen post about law schools applying for DETC accreditation at this website. When I spoke to DETC a year or so ago, I was told you cannot have DETC accreditation if you offer a doctor degree program. I do not personally think DETC measures up to regional accreditation, from a student or other institution perspective. It is not recognized on the same level as Regional Accreditation. I am not taking anything away from DETC and it has a purpose, but it is not regional accreditation. Therefore we will not seek it. We do not get accreditation just to have something on our website.

    Anyway this is my take on this. I am quite offended by the conduct of this guy’s hunt, seek, and destroy mission. There is only so much I will tolerate. I am not going to allow someone to destroy my school. I have students in attendance who are depending on the good name of the school and I will not set idly back and allow some nameless person destroy it.

    I believe this forum is far a fair exchange of information, not for the purpose of bashing schools. Although we do not hire instructors who attended unaccredited schools, it does not mean that the schools are inferior. We are seeking accreditation and everything is looked at with microscopic eye.

    In closing I am convinced that the guy who has been harassing me is a member of your group here. I based that on the name, behavior, and other factors which I will not mention as it would identify him.

    Please remember no school starts out accredited.

    Comments appreciated.

    Charles M. Frye
    President
    Last edited by Charles Frye; 02-11-2004 at 07:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Chip is offline Administrator
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    Charles,

    Thanks for posting. If you've done any digging in our forums, I'm sure you'll agree with me that it takes a lot of guts to post here with the headline "I own an unaccredited school." I looked at that and went "Uh oh. Another Les Snell" (owner of a mill that caused lots of problems some years ago.)

    But I was refreshed by your candor and your statements.

    Am I prepared to say that your school is legitimate and I'd recommend it? Nope.

    I've seen way too many mill operators show up and make somewhat similar claims that didn't stand up to just buy anyone's claims... but yours do seem to have a bit of a different ring to them, so I'm at least open to the possibility that your school could be an exception.

    And I also agree that the person you're speaking of does seem to have a bit of a screw loose.

    A significant majority of the regulars here have a very strong stand against fake schools, so people tend to come out guns blazing... and somebody who tries to blow smoke will be nailed mercilessly... but at the same time, most of the folks here are pretty reasonable as well.

    So... best of luck, and welcome!

  3. #3
    plcscott is offline Registered User
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    4. We require an accredited Bachelor's Degree for enrollment into the law program. (This is new and current). Too many people with Associate Degree or CLEP Test Takers are
    just not prepared for rigors of law school.

    I am not to sure that is going to sit very well here. The big 3 schools that are talked about here the most accept a lot of CLEP and other testing. These schools are accredited.

  4. #4
    triggersoft is offline Registered User
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    Question

    Is your school State Approved in CA ?

    Thanks and best regards,
    T.

  5. #5
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by plcscott



    I am not to sure that is going to sit very well here. The big 3 schools that are talked about here the most accept a lot of CLEP and other testing. These schools are accredited.
    This is a non sequitur. Someone who earned a bachelor's degree by CLEP and other forms of testing would be admitted to his law school.

    What he was referring to is the minimal requirement placed on law schools in California. Students can be admitted on the basis of either an associate's degree or by passing a battery of CLEP tests. THAT's the group the poster said doesn't do well. (BOTH associate's degree holders and those admitted based upon CLEP tests.) NOT people who've earned accredited bachelor's degrees.

    (I'm neither agree with, or challenging, the original poster's assertion about non-bachelor's holders' lack of preparation for law school. I'm just trying to straighten out a mis-perception.)

  6. #6
    drwetsch is offline Registered User
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    Charles,

    Thanks for your post. You cover a lot of topics but I do not think that this forum is totally against unaccredited programs. I think that this position has been ascertained when California Coast University , California Pacific University, and various unaccredited law schools that allow one to become a licensed lawyer or psychologist are discussed. The message that needs to get across is that unaccredited programs do have less utility than RA programs and that students must be aware of how much mileage they can get out of their degree. In addition, when a buyer is looking into unaccredited programs it is very easy for them to get caught up with a much for disreputable school.

    The prevalence of bad unaccredited programs is a significant challenge that good unaccredited schools face. It is also a challenge for DL in general. Prospective students must do a lot of digging on unaccredited schools. IMHO it is much easier to check out a school by looking at its accreditation than to spend the time trying to figure out if the unaccredited program will be useful.


    John
    John R. Wetsch, Ph.D.

    B.S. '01 University of North Dakota
    B.S. '84 Excelsior College (USNY/Regents)
    M.A. '89 Antioch University, The McGregor School
    Master of Astronomy, '02, University of Western Sydney
    Ph.D. '94 Nova Southeastern University

  7. #7
    drwetsch is offline Registered User
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    Charles,

    I visited your University's web site. I do have a question or two if you don't mind answering:

    1.) West Haven offers BSN and MSN Nursing programs. Does the BSN program qualify students to become licensed Nurses in California or other states. The only thing I can glean from the web site on this is that you are offering a couple of courses for CEUs.

    2.) On an accreditation web page (http://www.westhavenuniv.edu/whu/nur...s/accred.shtml) you mention that the school is seeking regional accreditation. How is this progressing and what is its current status?

    Thanks,

    John

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  9. #8
    uncle janko is offline member
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    Welcome aboard. I appreciate your detailed post.

  10. #9
    Charles Frye is offline Registered User
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    Thank you for your candor

    Members:

    I am really impressed with the responses I have received here.

    Before I address the responses to my post specifically and generally I do want to make a comment. Some schools are accredited but they are borderline worthless. Two of them flood you with spam emails to join their school.

    Now my responses, to specific questions raised:

    1) We do accept CLEP, Excelsior, DANTE, and any credits from accredited universities to an extent. It is not our goal from keeping people from using hard earned credit. We just have guidelines.

    2) We do not grant credit for life experience , but that is a two sided sword. Some of our applicants for our Bachelor of Science in Nursing Degree Program graduated from a state approved diploma program and are RNs. It is reasonable to give them credit, but we do not. Yet at the same time we grant credit from foreign schools based upon a quality evaluation. How do I really know if a school in Nigeria or Philippines, as an example, is any good at all? We really do not know for sure if an applicant earned their degree. In the Philippines you can go to Rojas Blvd and buy a degree, complete with transcripts that looks absolutely authentic, yet we close our doors to professional nurses that earned their right to be licensed in a three year program. I do not know how to reconcile this. I plan on speaking to the accreditation committee about this. Any suggestions from any of you would be appreciated. Please keep in mind that only about 20% of the RNs have bachelor degrees. Most have ADNs and diplomas so an RN to BSN is a goal for many nurses.

    3. We are limited by law to the number of credits we can accept in any degree program in transfer. All this is explained at our website.

    4. Rick you got it absolutely right. We have found that applicants who go out and take three CLEP tests and enter law school are not prepared for the rigors they face. I am not saying that there are not those who are bright who could do it, but based upon what we have seen, they, as a group, are not good candidates and all they do is waste their time, effort, and money. But we do tell them other schools will accept them and so those who persevere can still complete law school, just at another school. We just do not want to play the odds. Could someone convince me to let them in, of course? If you look at my site you will see where a student wrote a letter about our program. He had earned an Associate Degree from a now defunct electronic school. The school was really well known. The state did not accept his degree and he had to take the three CLEP test. He is doing just fine in school. (http://www.westhavenuniv.edu/whu/ann....bar1203.shtml)

    5. We are registered as a law school in California. Since we provide training by DE we cannot get any higher designation than that (state accredited or ABA) (www.calbar.org, click on admissions). If you read the statistics, correspondent law school students do better on the baby bar than accredited, unaccredited, and even the students from ABA accredited schools that have to take the baby bar. That has been consistent for years. I do not have an explanation for this phenomenon.

    6. Our program requires students to read and brief eight cases a week and they are pummeled with assignments. We believe that our program is consistent with the best law schools and probably better than the vast majority (but that is simply pride speaking w/o research to back it up). If a student does not do their work, they are not going to pass or be certified to take the bar. They are apprised of this going in. Some of our competitors' students hand in two papers, a non graded mid-term and a graded final for course work. How could anyone be prepared for any state sponsored exam doing this? All the school is doing is taking the people's money.

    6. Dr. Welch you ask if students in our BSN and MSN program could set for the State Boards. Students must be licensed in one of the states or territories of the United States to be in the program. That is an entrance requirement, not an exit requirement. Since it is an academic degree we could not make it an exit requirement. The degrees we offer are academic degrees, not entry level degrees.

    I am surprised you used the word “accreditation page.” We changed that to “License, Authority, and Membership.” When I asked it to be changed the webmaster said he had to change it on a million pages. I have now checked and see that he changed a lot but the button says “accreditation.” That will be changed to “Licenses.” Now to your question: We have two accreditations we are concerned about, RA and National League for Nursing . I try to convince nursing students that RA is far more important than NLN, but they have a mindset. We cannot get NLN accredited until we have RA. Sometimes NLN will schedule their inspections at the same time as RA. That is what we hope for. If you look at my website you will see the following regarding NLN:

    National League for Nursing
    West Haven University is a member in good standing with the National League for Nursing .
    http://www.nln.org
    To learn more about the accreditation process click here.
    If you click “here” you will see a letter that I wrote explaining what we are doing and that “membership” does not mean accreditation. Some school fool nurses, we do not.

    In “Things you ought to know about accreditation” at this link:

    http://www.westhavenuniv.edu/whu/nur...s/accred.shtml

    I wrote this:

    COVENANT
    If West Haven University does not receive regional accreditation by the time this class is scheduled to graduate, students will only have to pay a maximum of $2,000 to graduate. Students paying in advance will receive a refund of the amount paid in excess of $2,000.

    Considering that our instructors receive $3,000 per course, and there are up to 20 courses in the degree program, it will be a financial loss.

    Also look at our admission requirements. Ours meet or exceed most accredited nursing schools in the U.S. Also students can only do about three courses every semester, which is 16 weeks in length. (Law school is 24 weeks, as required by law). I mention this because these things are inconsistent with run of the mill unaccredited programs and diploma mills.

    It should be mentioned that the guy that was referred to in my original posting thought the way I handled the NLN issue was to mislead students. It is just the opposite. That letter was approved by NLN. Here are excerpts from the letter:

    “We cannot make any guarantees regarding accreditation. What we can say is this; we will do our best to achieve such distinction and recognition.
    Prospective students who are concerned about our accreditation status should wait and see if we receive accreditation from NLNAC before enrolling.
    Some prospective students call NLN and quickly find that we are not in their list of members accredited. We will not be on the list of accredited institutions until we are accredited.
    In closing I would like to mention that although we are members of the NLN, it does not mean accreditation. We have fully disclosed our status so that you can make an informed decision on whether to enroll.”
    Now where we are in the accreditation pipeline is hard to judge. We were going to submit our papers in December 2003. We have attended accreditation workshops and are doing what is called “self-study.” At this point we are not where we need to be. I need to beef up my staff with full time educators. To go into an accreditation site visit without meeting and exceeding RA guidelines would be a costly, foolish mistake. So I am hiring all kinds of people and some simply walk on water and have served as Deans at major universities.

    The individual that was spearheading our accreditation program was a law professor, and as odd as it sounds, was selected for administrative judgeship for the State of Utah and is no longer with us. He needs to be replaced. I have placed the following Ad in the Salt Lake, Provo, and Ogden, Utah newspapers with good results:

    “Online university in SLC needs instructors, Deans, Program Developers, Counselors, Librarian, Support Staff, Accreditation Committee, HRM, Board of Trustee Members. No phone calls please. Fax resumes to 801.942.1025 or email to employment@westhavenuniv,edu.”

    I hope I have answered all your questions.

    Sincerely,

    Charles Frye
    Last edited by Charles Frye; 02-12-2004 at 09:29 AM.

  11. #10
    drwetsch is offline Registered User
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    Thanks for the response to my questions. Very much appreciated. Since you are seeking RA before NLN does West Haven have a target as to when it plans to go under review and take the next steps to complete RA?

    Thanks,

    John

  12. #11
    Charles Frye is offline Registered User
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    Response to your question

    Dr. Welch:

    I have just hired a chairman for the accreditation steering committee. He has worked in accreditation and is a graduate of Western Washington Univ. with M Ed. I think he is an excellent choice.

    In response to your question, I expect to have the application clear my desk within four months. Again we have things we need to do and I do not want to fail, so it's not going to go until we are ready.

    We are not into facade. We want it to where the closer you look the better we look.

    Thanks again for your response and question.

    Charles Frye

  13. #12
    BillDayson is offline Registered User
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    Re: I own an unaccredited school

    Originally posted by Charles Frye
    I am the owner of West Haven University in Utah and California.
    I'm troubled by something right out of the gate. You refer to yourself as West Haven's "owner". You refer to the school's website as "my" website.

    It seems to me that little unaccredited universities sometimes fail because they never manage to cleanly separate their institutional identity from the identity of their owner.

    Does West Haven have some form of independent governance that can act in the university's best interests, even if that means disagreeing with you?

    When I read the debates posted here between accredited and unaccredited schools I think of one of the quotes Dr. Bear put in his book and it reads something like this: "A log in the woods with John Hopkins on one end and me on the other is enough of a university for me" and I think the person saying it was President Garfield. The other one I like is where the President of Harvard or Yale said a person could get a "first class education with a shelf full of books five feet long." So the point I am making is that it is not where you go to school, it is what you do with your education.
    I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm strongly attracted to several institutions and programs that offer solid sophisticated education without offering degrees. But if we turn our attention to earning academic degrees and employing those credentials out in the world, the issue of their credibility is an important one.

    No school starts out accredited and if every prospective student followed most of your recommendations (or caveats) regarding attending a non accredited school, there would be no new accredited schools.
    Or perhaps truly credible new schools need to possess more resources than many non-accredited online startups can muster.

    There's no obligation that anyone accept non-accredited universities a-priori, simply because they are new. The school's champions need to make its case, they need to explain what they think makes the place credible.

    When I spoke to DETC a year or so ago, I was told you cannot have DETC accreditation if you offer a doctor degree program. I do not personally think DETC measures up to regional accreditation, from a student or other institution perspective. It is not recognized on the same level as Regional Accreditation. I am not taking anything away from DETC and it has a purpose, but it is not regional accreditation. Therefore we will not seek it. We do not get accreditation just to have something on our website.
    DETC accredits first professional degree programs, including J.D.s. And I don't understand your rejecting DETC as inferior in favor of something more inferior still. If it's possible to acquire DETC accreditation more readily than accreditation by either the Northwest Association or WASC (neither of which seem to be particularly friendly to DL institutions), I'd suggest that you consider it, at least as an interim measure.
    Last edited by BillDayson; 02-12-2004 at 10:42 AM.

  14. #13
    Jodokk is offline Registered User
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    Honest and Frank

    This has been a refreshing exchange to read. Good Luck on your journey toward RA!
    BA from Charter Oak State College
    MFA in Creative Writing from Queens University of Charlotte
    MSCE in Counseling/Psychology from University of West Alabama

  15. #14
    TEKMAN is offline Semper Fi!
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    At least your school is under Yahoo - Distance Education directory:

    http://dir.yahoo.com/Education/Dista..._Universities/

    The school is not bad, but I'll to go to see the campus on this weekend.

    :D

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  17. #15
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    Originally posted by TEKMAN
    At least your school is under Yahoo - Distance Education directory: ttp://dir.yahoo.com/Education/Distan..._Universities/ The school is not bad, but I'll to go to see the campus on this weekend. :D
    So are American Coastline and Canyon College. I am not sure this is a ringing endorsement.

  18. #16
    Charles Frye is offline Registered User
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    Thank you for your response

    Dear Mr. Dayson:

    Thank you for your well articulated response.

    I have tendency toward territoriality even if I only worked for West Haven University. As an example when I was in the Navy it was "My Ship."

    Your concern focused on me using "my" in my posting. Yesterday when I was speaking to a group of educators about employment at my school I used "our" throughout the presentation. At the time I was concerned about that because it gave the impression that the school is owned by others. It is just interesting that you brought up just the opposite of what I was concerned about yesterday. But your concern is more on the governance of the university than the use of a word. The Bi-laws are written but have not been adopted. That is because we have not had the first meeting of the Board. BTW the president has no vote on the Board. We have three members of the Board currently, which includes a chairperson. There are six vacancies on the newly formed Board and we are seeking to fill those positions now. Members are paid for each meeting they attend and they cannot have any other association with the school. Our school is private and there are no funds coming from a governmental entity so there is no public governance. There is a procedure for filling vacancies on the Board and the president is removed from that process. If you read the Bi-Laws you would be surprised at the autonomy of the Board and the power it possesses. It only has one employee it can control and that is the president. It has no control over anyone else. There are procedures that have to be followed for virtually everything from ethical issues to naming building.

    I own all the stocks and it is only natural to say that I own the university. I believe, and I could be wrong, but Univ. of Phoenix was owned by one guy for a long time. Western University School of Law was also owned by one guy for many years. I don’t see where that is a major drawback. Actually I think it is more of a draw back to have people with purely an economical interest in the school than a stakeholder that wants the school to be all it can be from a pride standpoint, for a lack of a better description.

    Now if I did a public offering on stocks there would be shareholders and these shareholders would carefully watch what the Board of Trustees did. That is what I think. I really do not have any experience with this and at the time it is not an issue. I do not think they will set back and allow the Board to do something that is contra to the survivability of the school. I cannot see that as a real problem at all but mentioned from a purely speculative standpoint.

    At the meeting I wrote about earlier in this posting, one person asked about the governance and I mentioned pretty much as it is written here. I said that our school is small and that I am president, instructor, and Tuesday is my day to carry out trash. We are not pretentious. We know we are small and we know some people will think we are worthless. But we will continue to go forward.

    I was also asked where do I see myself in relation to the university in the future. Well I really do not want to be involved. I want it to succeed and it be my legacy but the day-to-day operation is not in my long range plans. For now it is in the infancy stage and it needs me and 4028 pounds of educators who think a lot like me and share in my vision.

    BTW, I did ask, how do you give away a university? I assume it could become a non profit entity. I am not sure if that is an answer.

    Now to DETC, you are absolutely correct when you said that they accredit up to the “first degree” even if it is doctoral degree. I do now recall that. But if you give an academic doctor degree, which we do (Academic J.D. Non bar), you cannot become accredited by DETC. We do not have any students in the Academic J.D. Program and considered surrendering the license and getting the DETC accreditation and build on it for RA. It was just a thought at the time.

    I purchased all of DETC books and they are excellent references for any accreditation process because you get the spirit of the process, but not necessarily the specific guidelines for a particular agency. I also purchased the home study course to be an examiner. I do not recall if I could have qualified but I figured if I knew enough to be an evaluator it would help me as we prepared for accreditation. Incidentally I was going attend DETC forum in Hawaii last year, but did not because of the degree limitations. Interesting enough I did suggest that they reconsider their degree limit because there is no real place to go for a DE institution offering doctoral degree programs.

    You mentioned that DETC is better than nothing. I am not going to own a university that is non-accredited. I cannot think in any terms but accreditation. I do think DETC is a worthy agency. I did not mean to imply otherwise. But perhaps you will agree with me that a student attending a DETC accredited school would be unable to transfer those credits to the University of Texas, as an example. I could be wrong.

    Your knowledge is substantial and you have done your homework and I appreciate your exchange of info with me.

    Also I do not get the impression that the NWASC is anything but a friendly agency with a clearly defined mission. You seem to allude otherwise. They provide ample information for those seeking accreditation. Contact with them has been nothing but positive. Of course they don’t know me from Adam at this point, but they treat people with respect, they clearly outline their expectations, and I believe they have good quality people to carry out their mandate. I really can’t ask for anything more than that. I approach this inspection like every inspection I have been in, follow the cookbook. Comply with the letter and spirit of their rules. Don’t put the site visit team in a position where they have to make an exception for your school and in the process abandon their standards. Provide the paper trail. If you lists benefits for your students, be able to demonstrate that it is real. Also follow-up complaints, evaluate instructor and course evaluations, and consider suggestions. Have the paper trail to show what you did. Don’t just say you did it. Have counselors that have the interest of the student at heart. Don’t have a salesperson with the title of “counselor.” The committee could easily see through this charade. Minimal education requirement for our counselor staff is a bachelor’s degree.

    Anyway these are some of my thoughts. I am impressed with the knowledge here. To me it is an education . I do ask that everyone continue to keep it professional. It is refreshing to read what you have to say and consider it. We all have our strengths and building a university is not something someone could naturally be strong in. I am a sponge for information and your public or private suggestions is truly appreciated.

    Sincerely,

    Charles

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