Kennedy Western

I was just reading through some old posts about KW and I figured I'd let everyone know some information. First of all, Kennedy Western trains its "admissions counselors" as sales people. They are given sales goals, conduct sales meetings, and employees are regularly fired for not meeting their goals two months in a row. There is no committee that the applications go before, they blatantly lie to applicants about this (some counselors will lie about being accredited as well). All applicants with the required 5 years work experience (which, by the way, can be anywhere) are admitted. The counselor is paid 75.00 for every application that is submitted to them so all they care about is making the sale, not about your personal academic goals. They make their employees sign an agreement that they will not disclose any of this information--I am not an employee, nor was I ever, but I can't disclose more than that because KW threatens legal action against those who provide this information. If anyone has any other questions, please feel free to post them. Thanks.

 

How do you know this information?

 

Bruce, I have sent you information on my identity, not to be shared with others for my own safety. Thanks.

 

I received it, thank you.

While I'm not now able to verify the authenticity of the information, "Cantsayname123" told me a very believable story, and I'll leave it at that. I also told him/her that any information shared with me or the other moderators will be held in the strictest confidence.

 

Sounds very much like serious marketing to me. Whether it is KWU or Pheonix (Pheonix marketing would leave all others for dead), no commercial enterprise can exist if it has no customers.
In New Zealand, where competition for tertiary students is fierce, all tertiary educational facilities pour millions of dollars into marketing and if they don't reach their required annual quota they don't get paid by the government - Effective Full Time Students (EFT's) is what they all need. All very similar to KWU, where failure to reach the EFT's target results in teachers, and administrators, becoming very rapidly redundant.
Whilst some of the 'experts' at DegreeInfo love sticking the knife into KWU the fact remains that it is a very successful commercial organisation (see their owners Annual Report) and a very large number of commercial enterprises recognise a KWU degree and encourage their staff to enrol. If this was not the case KWU would have been history by now; instead their enrolment numbers have increased dramatically over recent years. And even Bill Huffman has admitted it can be far easier to gain a degree from 'the big three' than it is by enrolling with KWU.
Dr Anatidae

 

Cantsayname123 writes:

> If anyone has any other questions, please feel free to post them.

When someone applies to do a Master's or Doctoral degrees at K-W, is any attempt made to verify that his Bachelor's degree is valid?

Do you have any comment on K-W's Web page about Admissions Director Suzanne Freiberg?
http://jobs.kw.edu/corp_culture/leaders/admissions_director.asp

K-W does admit that it's looking for "financially motivated sales people" http://jobs.kw.edu/corp_culture/team.asp; that its training program for admission counselors "was designed specifically for sales professionals" http://jobs.kw.edu/corp_culture.asp; and that "A successful Admission Counselor can expect to earn an average of over $45,000 to $50,000 in their first year" http://jobs.kw.edu/opportunities.asp

 

K-W may be a successful commercial enterprise...too bad that doesn't make them a real university that can offer real degrees.

 

Um, no.

1) Bill's "you" was a not a generic "you" (= "one"), but was addressed to a specific individual who claimed to have "decades" of experience and to "have accomplished quite a lot of independent study".

2) Bill said "very possible", not "a given". It really does depend on the individual's knowledge.

3) FNHayes is now misrepresenting Bill's "easier" above as "far easier".

4) The Big 3 offer (among other degrees) Liberal Arts degrees with humanities concentrations. These are often easier for people to fulfill with their general knowledge than the subjects that Kennedy-Western offers (Engineering, Computer Science, Business).

 

According to the KWU catalogue they are a State Approved degree granting university, and that their degrees are widely accepted in industry and commerce in the USA - and elsewhere.
Which we know to be perfectly factual.
There are two States that don't recognise KWU degrees, but I suspect that in both States the totally subjective opinions that lead to such thinking is exactly that - totally subjective - and the decisions were no doubt made by people with RA Degrees?
Dr Anatidae

 

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Bill Huffman in http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showth...&threadid=11200
It is very possible that you could get a real degree from one of the "big three" already mentioned faster, easier, cheaper, and for less work than KWU.

Mark,
All you appear to be doing is 'playing' with words.
When I questioned BillH about the above quote he chose to ignore the question.
Most KWU graduates would, naturally, agree with Bill's quote.
Dr Anatidae

 

Wrong again Dr Duck! K-W is a clear degree mill. It has moved from state to to state to evade regulation and closure. In at least two states it is ILLEGAL to use a K-W degree in any form. It is a shyster of a business that so far has flown under the radar of the federal government. I would not be surprised to see them closed and prosecuted by FBI or other federal agency at some point. Clearly a K-W degree is a time bomb waiting to go off.

 

Nice spin job Dr Duck! You misqoute Bill and then accuse Mark of playing with words! LOL! You should stick with the degree mill crowd. People who can think and reason don't buy that game!

 

K-W cannot even offer degrees in their state of residence. Probably a serious sign of a degree mill. Interesting the source sighting K-W's quality is K-W. Oh well.

 

Some incredibly mediocre prose in the last two posts. Obviously neither person has any knowledge about KWU. Please read my earlier posts on KWU, read the KWU catalogue, read the annual report of the KWU owners, and then talk to some of the HR people who accept KWU degrees - but unless you both have something intelligent to offer go post on AED.
At least Mark agrees with Bill Puffman on the degree of study difficulty presented by KWU compared to 'the big three'.
Dr Anatidae

 

Dear Dr Hayes,

Sir, if you are bothered that I called you an academic fraud then may I suggest that the impetus is on you to simply stop being a fraud? Alternatively, if you wish me to not mention the fact that you're an academic fraud then stop your personal attacks and defending of academic fraud and I won't have any reason to mention that you're an academic fraud.

I believe that KWU is an excellent example to use to help differentiate between a school and a degree mill. KWU has been categorized as a degree mill by some real authorities within higher education (e.g., Chronicle for Higher Education). Why is this? We've seen a number of people come here and claim that they had over 100 RA semester credits and did 15 more credits of classes and a term paper at KWU to "earn" a Bachelor's degree. They argue that this seems to be equivalent to an RA degree. This is the situation when I said that perhaps a real degree might be earned at one of the big three faster, easier and cheaper. Perhaps this even describes something close to your own situation? That is putting in work equivalent to a real degree at a degree mill but then in the end being an academic fraud when the bogus degree is claimed?

Based on the apparent misunderstandings you've expressed, perhaps this position appears hypocritical to you? It really is not. KWU is a degree mill like your alma mater. That means that these institutions cannot bestow real degrees. (BTW, KWU degrees are illegal in more than two states. The number of states where it is illegal will likely grow as it seems to be a growing trend to make degree mill degrees illegal for use.) So when someone claims a degree from a degree mill they are claiming to be a graduate when they in fact are not. That makes them an academic fraud.

A real school is NOT made by someone going through the school's program and putting in as much work as is required for a standard degree. A real school will ensure that its graduates can be counted on by the rest of society to have accomplished the learning required by a standard degree. If the institution does not do this then it is not a real school. It is a degree mill. People can easily go through the KWU program or the Trinity program and complete only a small portion of the work required for a standard degree. That makes those institutions degree mills. One cannot earn a valid degree at a degree mill, no matter how much is learned. It must be ensured by a real school that all of the graduates have accomplished the learning required by the standard degree. Degree mills don't do this and that is what makes them degree mills. This is what makes you an academic fraud.

 

Do you have any information on the test referred to in the KWU literature that can be taken in lieu of an AA or 60 semester credits?

 

Bill, Whilst some of your views on KWU may well be correct they still respresent a high level of subjectivity, otherwise no organisation would accept a KWU degree and KWU would have already disappeared. Whereas KWU is at present enrolling more students than ever before and for many a KWU degree may well be the height of their academic achievement.
Your continued use of the words 'academic fraud' show you in very poor light. As I've mentioned previously, my work and words on the NZ Brown teal have gained widespread recognition, with such being cited in all literature involving rare and endangered waterfowl, and in just about all modern manuals on waterfowl of the world.
My qualifications are above reproach, so please cease using
emotive and meaningless words, even if they do appease your ego in some way.
Dr Anatidae

 

Dr. Anatidae,
My response to you was not an attempt of prose, merely a statement of fact. It is interesting that your response is one of personal attack. Your threat that I need to go elsewhere for comment reflects you own lack of respect. K-W cannot accept students in the state where they legally reside, that is a reflection on the limitations of their program. It is not a matter of how hard the students work on their degrees, it is that their degrees are not regionally or nationally accredited and lack merit. Students who gradute from K-W cannot teach in RA or DETC institutions. The fact that some businesses unwittingly accept the credential is a reflection on the business for not verifying the voracity of the degree, not a reflection on the quality of K-W. Please keep you insults to yourself. I have simply responded with facts.

 

Hey, I found a good Kennedy-Western success story right in our dump!!!!! Now I'm sure after you read this, there will be no furthur doubt as to whether KW is legit!!!!!

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=101729#post101729

 

The subjectivity in my post was on what makes a degree mill. Even though KWU apparently requires some amount of work, the minimum required is still far below the standard. That coupled with their multiple flights from one legal jurisdiction to another to avoid legal trouble and their inability to accept students from the jurisdiction that they operate from plants them squarely into the degree mill category, IMHO.

The part that I don't believe is subjective is that a diploma from a degree mill does not represent a real degree. Another important part that I don't believe is just my opinion is that if an institution does not ensure that graduates of that institution have learned the required standard subjects for a degree then that institution is either a library or a degree mill. It is not a school. Since it is not a school their degrees are not valid.

I'm sure that KWU degrees are sometimes accepted as valid degrees. It is fallacious to argue that this means that they must actually be valid. That no more make it valid than if you forged a check and if it got cashed then argue that it being cashed proved that it was a valid check. The same is true for your fallacious argument that just because KWU continues having success scamming people that this somehow makes them legitimate.

Fraud is a simple word meaning someone that pretends to be something that they are not. I don't see how calling you an academic fraud because you're pretending to have a doctorate when in fact you don't, puts me in a bad light? Going back to my forged check analogy, you're arguing that just because you were successful forging a very large check that it proves the check is valid? Or perhaps a better analogy would be that just because you forged a large check that cleared and you had sufficient funds in another bank under your real name that this made the forged check valid?

Which Trinity College & University did you earn your Ph.D., the Derbyshire U.K. version, the Sioux Falls version, the Hawaii version, the London version, the Panama version, the Ireland version, or some other fly-by-night version?