The Asian Scam Artists

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by linjie, Dec 12, 2003.

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  1. linjie

    linjie New Member

    Professor David Hsing, the owner of Canadian College of Professional Management(www.cipm.ca)
    is currently running several degree programs for Wisconsin International University (www.wiu-usa.edu) and Clayton university (www.claytonuniversity.net). I guess he is a fellow of Dr. Eugene Stone, the founder of Clayton
    and Dr. John Buuk, whom also established Concordia
    International university in Estonia, eventually went off business in last may, right now changed its name to the international university of Estonia (www.university.ee)
    another big scam mafia-Prof Dr Lim Shian Ghee, whom reprenting St Clements University and rish University Business School. Both are bogus institutions. Here's their website: www.education88.com
     
  2. AlistairL_S

    AlistairL_S New Member

    On the face of it the International University website looks credible - particularly the section about the Estonian Education Ministry accrediting its BA programmes.

    http://www.university.ee/?id=5000&news=20

    Does anybody know a) if this is true, and b) what it actually means? For example, is it simply licensure to operate legally or does it really mean that the BA degree from this University, in those subjects, is a fully accredited degree as accreditation is understood in, say, the US or UK?
     
  3. linjie

    linjie New Member

    The interesting thing about CIUE (Concordia internatioanl university in Estonia) was actually started in 1992. the miracle was, from a illegitimate institution in the U.S. It has somehow folled the Estonian authority and gained its recognition.
     
  4. Foiling national authorities...

    There seems to be a lot of this going around these days. I believe Alan Contreras mentioned a new dark phase of accreditation emerging as countries in under-developed and war-torn areas begin to play the game of providing "accreditation of convenience" for diploma mill-type operations. Calls into question the GAAP principles, which say that if a country's ministry of education accredits the program it is more-or-less equivalent to regional US accreditation.
     
  5. AlistairL_S

    AlistairL_S New Member

    It certainly does, Carl, and makes the task for those involved in judging equivalency for the admission of international students into postgraduate programmes much more complex. Obviously there are many benchmarks, but as in such countries universities and colleges, both good and bad, that were once clearly identifiable are changing their names so fast in response to changing circumstances it is becoming less easy to keep track. Government accreditation (or equivalency) under systems like GAAP was always one of the most useful starting points.

    This new trend, if it is how you say, and I have no reason to doubt your word, will certainly make life interesting! Ah well, perhaps it's time for a mid-life career change!!!
     
  6. AlistairL_S

    AlistairL_S New Member

    New career for Alistair

    Anybody know where I can get a medical degree with no work required, no money to pay and no previous experience.....

    Oh and by the way I need it backdating to 1972 so I can apply for Head of Department positions straight away...

    :D

    (Just in case anybody is in any doubt at all I am joking!!!! I have seen how these things can escalate...)
     
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Re: Foiling national authorities...

    Estonia is not war-torn, not THAT underdeveloped and certainly has credible higher education system.

    Same thing I saw with AWU (? - might have forgotten) of Ukraine. Those people even ran free English-language movies, as an educational service. When I looked up their website, I was surprised that it's administration and faculty seemed to be properly credentialled, relatively senior and apparently well-connected fellows from legitimate State Teachers University. Go figure.
     
  8. Re: Re: Foiling national authorities...

    The point I'm making with all this is that things have gotten so out of control with people acting as gatekeepers to degree legitimacy, partially in over-reaction to the "life experience" diploma mill phenomenom, that even legitimate degree granting institutions that don't fit the traditional mold in some way are considered fraudulent. Some of the more vocal members of this board have certainly helped change the educational landscape in this direction, which in my opinion is not in the long run a good thing.

    Does this make me a diploma mill defender? Nope..... just a concerned citizen wondering where discretion and judgment went as the world becomes ever more regimented and "globalized" according to the edicts and principles of a few elitists.

    (Ducking for cover now....)
     
  9. George Brown

    George Brown Active Member

    Many of these organisations will no longer be able to operate in Malaysia as the Government has now banned their operations. Off to Estonia it is then!

    Cheers,

    George
     
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Foiling national authorities...

    I don't think so.
    I think Estonian participants, fooled by American (?) partners, still managed to create minimally credible institution, despite goofy affiliations. Same thing would be true with AWU - Ukraine. My guess.
     
  11. The CAT

    The CAT New Member

    as I read this post it made me wonder of this danger:

    Are these schools that are accredited in Estonia considered legitimate, accredited and acceptable to other schools that accept other degrees as credit???

    The reason I ask is because if someone were to purchase this "accredited" degree and flip it into another program like Excelsior, COSC and TESC which give credit for prior experience. In essence a person could buy a degree to use for credit to achieve another degree to use for acceptance into a Master's program in weeks and be a legally legitimate college graduate.
     
  12. George Brown

    George Brown Active Member

    You got it in one...this happens all the time. And the scariest thing of all? I have witnessed AED posters, in the past, brag about using fake degrees to obtain entry into Masters/ PhDs etc. which have been accepted by legitimate universities. Since recognition of degrees is, in the end, solely at the discretion of the evaluating institution, it depends how desperate and shoddy their background checking is. There will always be those that fall between the cracks.

    Cheers,

    George
     
  13. jerryclick

    jerryclick New Member

    Can someone help me out here? As I read the various postings and websites, if a country is a signatory to UNESCO, under international law other nations accept degrees as accredited? Please expand on this,or show me the error of my ways. (I had a former manager tell me that his SRU degree had to be legit because of this UN ruling, but Oregon, where this occurred, says SRU is a MILL) :)
     
  14. linjie

    linjie New Member

    Estonian international university

    when it is first started in 1992, They got help
    from Dr. Buuk-the founder of www.WIU-usa.edu
    you can certainly read what he has to say about Concordia international university in Estonia.
    But later on, the director of CIUE, Dr. Mart Susi-an estonian guy somehow dumped Dr. John Bukk.
     
  15. linjie

    linjie New Member

    More about Estonian schools

    A very interesting part of the world we are talking about here...
    Personally I have studied there three years ago.
    there are couple of unaccreditated higher education establishments, as for Concordia (or international university as it is called now) hired many OFFshore staff from the U.S. Mainly are
    BAD BAD , party animals professors. Once I even read on Concordia's catalog, one of their deans graduated from this socalled United world University in Coasta Rica.
    for example the international university of social science(www.lex.ee)
    the only institution, which offer a fairly reputated education is Tartu university.
     
  16. The CAT

    The CAT New Member

    The real question here is how do you warn the good colleges of the US about these problems if they haven't realized? I guess you can't go and accuse people you "think" look bad, even when it seems obvious, for that is a dangerous game of legality. On the other hand there could be a way to make a list instead of schools which they should use "caution" with before they give credit to an unsuspecting degree mill BA purchase.

    The wording would be to the effect of "if a student presents your school with a degree from XYZ123 college, double-check it before you give credit because there have been questions regarding the accreditation of this school or the accreditation agency they have received accreditation from." This letter could be bulk mailed to all legitimate schools in the country. In the US however, is even telling people to use caution grounds for legal action? How could good schools be warned without fear of legal issues?

    The laws of our country scare me as we have all seen situations where people have done things you didn't morally see as all that bad and next thing you hear they got 3 to 5 years in jail or a huge suit against them. Man, it's a tricky world we live in, too bad my careers in IT and not in Law, for today anyway!!!
     
  17. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Re: More about Estonian schools

    Right. I can speculate that this school is not very good. I just don't think it is a mill. Unlike their "mother" operation. In 1992, it was "cool" to be assotiated with ANY american, and fine gentleman of Concordia apparently made his quick buck on that fashion.
     
  18. linjie

    linjie New Member

    yea, it is not a diploma mill.
    But the education standard is terriable.
    They hired too many old horney maniacs who want to find themselves blond girls in Estonia....
     

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