Question for Dennis Ruhl

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Jeff Hampton, Nov 26, 2003.

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  1. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Dennis,

    I have a hypothetical question for you:

    You have a Ph.D. from UNISA. You are in a job interview.

    Interviewer: I see that you have a Ph.D. from the University of South Africa. That's DETC accredited, right?

    What would your response be?
     
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Interesting question. I've always thought it was an incredibly stupid idea for UNISA to go for DETC accreditation.

    Unless there is some issue with US financial aid, I can't see any reason at all why UNISA would do that.
     
  3. roysavia

    roysavia New Member


    The doctoral programs at UNISA are not accredited by DETC. UNISA however, does have royal charter and is a GAAP recognized institution.
    I am currently working on a DLitt et Phil at UNISA. My employer is aware that UNISA is an internationally recognized institution. As for DETC, the accreditation is for their undergraduate programs only.
    To answer your question: UNISA applied for DETC accreditation so that credits can be transferred to U.S. institutions without having applicants go through a degree assessment by WES or other credential verification services. UNISA's programs are just as demanding as any programs found at DETC accredited colleges. They want to remain competitive in distance learning education.
     
  4. walter

    walter New Member

    Royal Charter?

    How can UNISA have a Royal Charter if South Africa doesn't have a monarch?

    Or is it just short-hand for a government mandate/license of some sort?
     
  5. agilham

    agilham New Member

    Re: Royal Charter?

    Er, no.

    UNISA has been around for well over a century, possibly nearer a century and a half (their history page makes excellent reading), and their Royal Charter dates from the time when one Victoria RI was Head of State of the Dominion of South Africa . . . and rather a lot besides ;-)

    Angela
     
  6. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    Re: Royal Charter?

    Visit their web site and check the history link to confirm this information.
     
  7. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Re: Royal Charter?

    I believe Columbia University has a Royal Charter as King's College, as do others.
     
  8. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member


    My response

    "It's a hundred years old plus and one of the top South African Universities, catering to students worldwide

    It has DETC accreditation for American student financing purposes."


    I guess that's all you could say.
     
  9. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Re: Re: Question for Dennis Ruhl


    Unless you are attempting to deceive the interviewer, you should also probably add "DETC's accreditation is for courses, programs through the first-professional degree level only."
     
  10. David Boyd

    David Boyd New Member

    Re: Re: Question for Dennis Ruhl

    What American financing? DETC schools do not participate in Title IV programs.
     
  11. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Re: Re: Question for Dennis Ruhl

    And upon what do you base this statement? That's certainly not what UNISA says:

    http://www.unisa.ac.za/Default.asp?Cmd=ViewContent&ContentID=7443
     
  12. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    My question for Jeff Hampton is: Why are you trying to restart a flame thread?

    If I were the person with a Ph.D. from UNISA and somebody asked me if UNISA were DETC accredited I'd probably reply: "Yeah, I think it is. I don't know if that accreditation applies to all of UNISA's programs though. I don't think that DETC accredits doctoral programs."

    I probably wouldn't go into a big long apologia for UNISA's legitimacy, since I'd assume that if an interviewer already knew enough about UNISA to know about the DETC thing, there would be no reason to.

    If he tried to argue that UNISA wasn't RA equivalent, which would be an unlikely response from anyone familiar with the school, then I'd probably hit him with the charter stuff, the SA state connections, UNISA's possessing the same status as the Capetown and Witwatersrand etc. I'd probaly talk up the professors I'd studied with and mention their work.
     
  13. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I don't think that it's stupid. Pointless might be a better word. I certainly don't see any harm in it. It's understanding the benefit that's harder.

    I can speculate about possible reasons.

    DETC is a DL-specialized accreditor. UNISA is a school with a reputation for not being very student-friendly. So in this case DETC accreditation might not really be directed at UNISA's academics at all. It might be intended to validate improvements in UNISA's DL delivery process and in their customer service.

    It might also be intended as a more general sign that a university that was rather isolated and inward-looking during the apartheid years is interested in being an international player.

    Personally, I've always kind of thought that DETC might find a niche not as a minor-league institutional accreditor, but as a specialized accreditor of DL delivery effectiveness. That way DETC accreditation of DL programs at RA schools would become a meaningful thing. It would mean that the school had the DL specialists in just as they had the engineering specialists (ABET) and the business specialists (AACSB).
     
  14. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Good idea!
     
  15. David Boyd

    David Boyd New Member

    This is a good observation. DETC has more experience in reviewing distance education programs than all the regionals combined.
     
  16. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Re: Re: Question for Dennis Ruhl

    I honestly am not. In fact, the more I think about this, the more I think Dennis is right in saying that if he earns a Ph.D. from CCU after they receive accreditation, he would not need to explain the accreditation status of his degree.

    It's DETC's problem if they choose to allow an accredited school to grant Ph.D.'s even though say that any school that grants Ph.D.'s cant even apply for accreditation.

    My one caveat is that DETC might specifically say that CCU Ph.D.'s are not covered by their accreditation, as they have with UNISA. If that were the case, I was just wondering what Dennis (or anyone else) would say. Apparently, obfuscation would be the appropriate response.

    And of course, that would be a blatant lie. You know that DETC accreditation does not apply to Ph.D. programs.

    I am not questioning UNISA's legitimacy. Just wondering why people would lie and deceive to make it appear to be something that it is not, especially if that "something" is so irrelevant.
     
  17. cehi

    cehi New Member

    Jeff Hampton: "I honestly am not. In fact, the more I think about this, the more I think Dennis is right in saying that if he earns a Ph.D. from CCU after they receive accreditation, he would not need to explain the accreditation status of his degree."


    Chehi: You are correct, Jeff. I have equally thought that way too. I think Dennis's comment seems appropriate. However, my major concern is regarding those who have already obtain their Ph.D. from CCU prior to CCU obtaining the DETC accreditation (if they obtain it).

    I think they could make the same comment like Dennis and get away with it as well. afterall, if anyone ask them they would say yep, it is accredited, and if anyone checks, it could show the possible accreditation status at that time. Hopefully, those seeking data would not forget to check the applicable dates. Thank you.
     
  18. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Re: Re: Re: Question for Dennis Ruhl

    I imagine you are right. My identification says Alberta, Canada. Thought it was a reason.
     
  19. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Re: Re: Re: Question for Dennis Ruhl

    Simple question - simple answer. I would work that bug out of your ass if I were you.
     
  20. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for Dennis Ruhl

    Yes, you are right. Ethics are such a pain in the ass. Best to just ignore them and do whatever best serves your interest.

    By the way, your assertion that accreditation is only for financial aid purposes is not only clearly fraudulent, it is classic millspeak.
     
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