Questionable degrees

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by jb4479, Oct 2, 2003.

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  1. jb4479

    jb4479 New Member

    I haven't been here in a while but while paging through the forum I found several questions coming up on the legitimacy of unaccredited degrees. I bring this point up because a few years ago I recall a debate in the media over relationships between men and women, this was about the time "Dr" John Gray was peddling his books. If you look at his bio it says he has a BA and an MA in "Creative Intelligence from Maharishi European Research University", that one sounds questionable in and of itself but his PhD is from Columbia Pacific University., which if I am not mistaken was ordered closed by the state of California.

    The point is this, he has several degrees which are highly questionable in origin and yet is a very sought after lecturer and successful author.

    Where is the line drawn? If I have been reading this forum correctly this man should be given no credence whatsoever (and believe I don't, his ideas are idiotic at best), yet he is asked to speak all over the world.

    What really sparked this was a thread from a young man wanting to attend CCU, and being told not to bother because the degree wasn't worth as much

    Comments please.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Not to mention that much of John Gray's work is suspiciously similar to the works of communications expert Deborah Tannen.







     
  3. jerryclick

    jerryclick New Member

    Surely you don't mean that a best-selling book could be a-a PLAGIARISM? :eek:
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I appreciate your levity. I emailed Dr. Tannen several years ago and asked her how she felt about Gray's use of her works. I don't remember her exact words but it amounted to she didn't appreciate it but que sera, sera. I am a big fan of Tannen and have read all her books so I immediately caught the "similarities" after reading a few of Gray's books.



     
  5. Dr. Gina

    Dr. Gina New Member


    I am not familiar with Dr. Tannen..what is she known for?
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi Dr. Gina,

    Deborah Tannen is professor of linguistics at Georgetown and is considered an internationally renowned scholar and expert in communications. She's written some bestsellers including You Just Don't Understand and The Argument Culture. You can find out more about her here.



     
  7. jerryclick

    jerryclick New Member

    Author: Give the Gift of Understanding/You Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation/That's Not What I Meant! ...
     
  8. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member

    Being a fallen away linguist myself, it was interesting to see how some linguists reacted to her success. Her books are clearly written for a more commercial audience than the six people who read linguistics texts. Some linguists were less than enthused. I'm sure they thought a Georgetown linguist (and G-town is one of the better schools on the planet for linguistics) should be studying the use of clitics in Finnish. Something really important like that. :rolleyes:



    Tom Nixon
     
  9. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

    jb4479 wrote:

    > [...] I found several questions coming up on the legitimacy of
    > unaccredited degrees.
    [...] John Gray [...] has a BA and
    > an MA in "Creative Intelligence from Maharishi European
    > Research University"


    It's now called the Maharishi University of Management, and it's Regionally Accredited (the most respected accreditation in the US, enjoyed by Harvard, Yale, and your local community college). Gray was himself an aide to the Maharishi Yogi -- originally known for Transcendental Meditation, and now behind the Natural Law Party, which seeks political power in country after country, claiming they can solve all our problems with yogic fliers, and citing "scientific research" from Maharishi University. Yes, I find that scary.

    > his PhD is from Columbia Pacific University, which if I am not
    > mistaken was ordered closed by the state of California.


    Yes, it was; but it had a gradual downhill slide. In the early years, there were three former presidents of accredited universities on the staff. Many major universities, including Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, expressed a willingness to accept CPU degrees. As Rich Douglas has written, someone pursuing an advanced degree by distance learning around 1980 "had very few alternatives, most of them unaccredited." You "might choose Walden or Sarasota (later to become accredited) or Heed or Columbia Pacific (crash!). Who was to know?"

    > The point is this, he has several degrees which are highly
    > questionable in origin and yet is a very sought after lecturer
    > and successful author.


    I think he succeeded as an author because he had a catchy title and an engaging prose style, not because of his degrees.

    > What really sparked this was a thread from a young man
    > wanting to attend CCU, and being told not to bother because
    > the degree wasn't worth as much


    California Coast University is a candidate for DETC accreditation (which is the second-most-respected kind of accreditation, after Regional Accreditation). So it shouldn't be lumped in with unaccredited schools that are not pursuing accreditation. But no question about it: Regionally Accredited degrees are worth more than other degrees, both in academia and in many employment situations. Becoming a popular author doesn't require a degree at all.
     
  10. russdawg

    russdawg New Member

    I'm new here, I've only been reading here for a couple of days and researching distance learning for a couple of weeks. There is CERTAINLY some disagreement between factions here (DETC/RA (took me two days to find out what that meant...), accredited/unaccredited, etc.). But, the answer to the question seems quite simple to me. You get the degree that enables you to reach your goals.

    I'm retired military and I inquired into the "Troops-to-Teachers" program. Well, you have to have a degree. Just a simple, unqualified degree in anything. So, on their recommendation, I applied to an unaccredited 'diploma mill' and paid my fee and received my degree. Now I can get my teaching credentials and go thataway.

    But, I'm ambitious, too. I immediately started checking into graduate studies for career advancing opportunities. Guess what? I can go back to the 'mill' or I can go back to school, an accredited one. And all employers aren't dumb. Even Uncle Sam is starting to specify "degree from an accredited university" in many job announcements.

    A big influence for me (just last night) was the following article by Marina Bear, Ph.D. (from where? just kidding), Guest column: Accreditation and Ethics -- A Case Study, http://www.degree.net/news/ethics.html on the degree.net website. I'm sure most of you know her and it.

    Anyway, that's my two cents worth.
     
  11. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Russ: Welcome aboard. Best of luck to you. It does take a little while to get the hang of the jargon and the acronyms. When you start to zero in on a school, use the search function to get an idea of its "history." I found this very helpful.
     
  12. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member


    And you will find yourself gainfully unemployed. I'm aware of no school district that will hire someone who has anything not regionally accredited. And for that matter, no state licensing office that will give you a teaching credential if your school is not on their list of approved programs.



    Tom Nixon
     
  13. donna

    donna New Member

    Regarding teaching with a degree from a degree mill or an unaccredited college: I spoke with a friend that teaches in Gainesville FL and he told me of 2 teachers that just started at his middle school. After they started their credentials were checked and it was discovered that they had a degree from a university in Louisiana that was not accredited. These teachers were not fired. They have been allowed to continue to teach and have been given one year to rectify the PROBLEM.
    I don't know if this is the case in other states or if this is just an exception in Florida, but I wonder how closely credentials are checked. I know that fingerprints and background checks are done, but I wonder if accreditation is really a high priority.
    Any thoughts??
     
  14. jerryclick

    jerryclick New Member

    I know that accreditation is not a high priority with some large corporations. Until recently, I worked for a large corporation whose management ranks are sprinkled with people holding degrees from unaccredited schools.
     
  15. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    ===

    In 1968 the University of San Diego allowed me to enter the teacher training program witrh my unaccredited BA from Linda Vista. I was required to do an additional 24 semester units in English (for a teaching major) and 21 in Education. On the basis of that USD recommended me to the state for the credential (then a 5th yr for Life). Grossmont Union HS District hired me where I taught for seven years before moving to Oregon. In Oregon I've taught another 22 years in three districts...all with the unaccredited BA. I think this is VERY atypical and would never---welll almost never--recommend going unaccredited.
     
  16. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    28 years teaching in Oregon, not 22. Been so many I can't keep track;)
     
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the story, I consider it a far better story of someone being successful with an unaccredited degree than the Gray from Mars story.
     

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